--- Day changed

--- Log opened Sun Apr 10 23:59:02 2005
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04:17 < mael> hi
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05:21 < soffi> morning
05:22 < mael> hi soffi
05:22 < soffi> whatsup
05:28 < mael> pretty tired :)
05:28 < soffi> hehe
07:26 < riel> owwww, not fair!
07:26 < riel> xen broke _again_ in the rawhide kernel
07:26 < riel> with the rebase to -rc2
07:26 < riel> and execshield updates
07:27 < riel> that'll probably take me half of the day to fix up
07:30 < mael> lo riel :)
07:30 < riel> 'morning
07:32 < mael> riel:  did you followed design discussions from xen 1.2 to xen 2?
07:33 < riel> nope, back then I was still looking at the CKRM design ;)
07:33 < mael> I wonder how the front-end/back-end/native device drivers model emerged
07:34 < mael> hehe you swiched after OLSR '04?
07:35 < riel> yeah, after OLS
07:35 < riel> (not sure where the R comes from)
07:35 < mael> mmh from my mind probably :)
08:00 < soffi> muhaha
08:00  * soffi is officially a p2p fascist
08:02 < mael> soffi:  well, uh, you're a network & system engineer, no?
08:02 < soffi> yup
08:03 < mael> yeah so you *are* a fascist
08:03 < soffi> shuold change my job description to pure fascist
08:03 < soffi> mael: hehe exactly
08:03 < mael> in your job at least, no matter what your real political opinions are
08:03  * mael is a network & system engineer too :)
08:18 < mael> hehe there's already the "Xen Summit 3.0" presentation on the website
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08:19 < mael> ...for year 3005 :)
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08:51 < riel> soffi: there's nothing like clamping down p2p traffic to 30kbit/s for 10 minutes every 15 minutes ;)
08:51 < mael> riel:  hehe
08:51 < riel> or instructing the firewall to drop every second p2p packet
08:51 < Sir_Ahzz> moooo
08:51 < riel> tcp congestion control will do the rest
08:52 < mael> mmh, and I thought sysadmin where the worst :)
08:52 < riel> (and it's subtle enough that users will never figure out)
08:52 < mael> -h
08:53 < Sir_Ahzz> netadmins can be far worse.
08:53 < Sir_Ahzz> especially if they snoop a link, and terminate it 5 bytes from being complete on a non-restartable download.
08:53  * Sir_Ahzz misses 14.4k modem banks.
08:54 < mael> :)
08:54 < mael> I don't :)
08:54 < riel> mael: that's because you were on the other side
08:54 < Sir_Ahzz> oh I don't miss the lack of speed.
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08:54 < Sir_Ahzz> just the hundreds of pretty flashing lights in a rack.
08:55 < mael> riel:  uh no, this is because the rack stuff, the pile of cables going to the telephone sockets on the wall
08:55 < mael> and also the f*g shiva gear
08:56 < soffi> hehe
08:56 -!- riel is now known as surriel
08:56 < soffi> one hour with the shaper on and no phonecalls! :)
08:56 < surriel> ok, time to go to the office ;)
08:56 < Sir_Ahzz> mael, didn't you have wire guides?
08:57 < Sir_Ahzz> or tie straps at the minimal.
08:57 < mael> uh no, I wasn't the guy responsible for the mess in the first place
08:57 < mael> I cleaned it up a bit but it took ages
08:57 < Sir_Ahzz> heh
08:58 < mael> the usual "legacy stuff" problem
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08:58 < mael> sometimes system and network administration is very close to archaeology
08:59 < Sir_Ahzz> *chuckle*
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09:00  * Sir_Ahzz wonders if his 4-way ppro boxes are considered legacy. 3' tall rack sized boxes from IBM.
09:00 < Sir_Ahzz> anyone want them?
09:01 < Sir_Ahzz> I have 3 that I can't use linux on. ;-P
09:01 < mael> mmh why not?
09:02 < mael> I mean why can't you use linux on them?
09:02 < Sir_Ahzz> never could get  the APICs to initialize properly.
09:02 < mael> ok
09:02 < Sir_Ahzz> been trying since 2.3.99
09:02 < Sir_Ahzz> every kernel version up to 2.6.3
09:03 < Sir_Ahzz> sides, they are monstrous in size. nowhere to put them cept for the shed. 8-P
09:04 < Sir_Ahzz> came with 3 fiber-chan cards, and 3 adaptec f/w scsi-III raid cards.
09:04 < Sir_Ahzz> one had a 4-port 10Mbps network card.
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10:33 < sunny> I have this odd problem of dom0_mem= giving me constant greif
10:33 < sunny> err, grief
10:33 < unriel> don't use it, then ;)
10:33 < unriel> if you're on -unstable
10:34 < sunny> but if I don't use it, xend seems to go psycho
10:35 < sunny> for now I'm using less ram than my system actually has
10:35 < sunny> for I seem to get odd conflicting reports of how much RAM my system has
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10:45 < sunny> so what is the best way to see what to specify with dom0_mem= ?
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11:46  * eigood is making a debian package of iet
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12:02 < matta-lt> aliguori: VM tools are at almost the same functionality as xend right now, correct?
12:02 < mael> hey aliguori 
12:02 < matta-lt> it's just bugfixes/testing.. ?
12:03 < aliguori> matta-lt: yeah, migration/save/restore is missing but someone is working on that as we speak
12:03 < mael> aliguori:  users were setting a trap for you :)
12:03 < aliguori> mael: howdy
12:03 < aliguori> hehe
12:03 < aliguori> a trap? uh oh
12:03  * mael has a question also :)
12:04 < matta-lt> aliguori: heh, well i personally don't use that (yet) anyway
12:04 < matta-lt> vm-tools intrigue me....
12:04 < mael> you talked about a "uclibc howto as soon as the wiki is up"
12:04 < aliguori> ahhh
12:04 < mael> well I inform you that the wiki it up :)
12:04 < aliguori> i was wondering how long it would take for someone to pick up on that :-)
12:04 < matta-lt> mainly because all of my problems with xen seem to revolve around xend :)
12:04 < mael> and I was not able to find the howto :))
12:04 < mael> krkrkr
12:04 < mael> a trap! I told you :)
12:05 < aliguori> mael: i'll put something up this afternoon :-)
12:05 < mael> ok that's nice :)
12:06 < mael> it's just that you libxen/vm-tools work is not so far from completion and I think it is about time for the uclibc stuff :)
12:06 < aliguori> uclibc is really easy to get going
12:06 < aliguori> i just have to download everything and run through it so i can document the steps :-)
12:06 < aliguori> so it's just been an issue of time, but i do have some free time this afternoon
12:07 < matta-lt> yayayayay death to xend/python!
12:07 < aliguori> one of my original goals with vm-tools was a uclibc-based < 4MB dom0
12:07 < mael> ok that's brilliant!
12:07 < mael> yeah I know
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12:07 < mael> well in fact I just discovered today to be fair :)
12:07 < aliguori> hehe
12:08 < mael> as soon as I heard about the c rewrite of xend and xm, I thought about a as-small-as-possible-dom0-image
12:08 < aliguori> well, what i would like is a dom0 that fits within a ramdisk..
12:08 < mael> but as for many stuff in life, I was not the first one :)
12:08 < matta-lt> I only run mine with 128MB ... including full http and mysql
12:09 < aliguori> brb, lunch time
12:09 < mael> yeah the 16MB target is a cool one
12:09 < mael> (for dom0 I mean)
12:10 < mael> anyway, "bon appetit" :)
12:10 < mael> hi jeroney btw
12:12  * mael is happy with the vmtools link on aliguori webpage also :)
12:12 < mael> thx lads
12:16 < eigood> does VM tools work with 2.0?
12:17 < mael> you mean xen 2.0?
12:17 < eigood> aliguori: what about ssh?
12:17 < eigood> what other 2.0 would I mean?
12:17 < matta-lt> no
12:17 < matta-lt> only unstable...
12:17 < eigood> any reason why it couldn't be made to work?
12:17 < matta-lt> hypervisor calls have changed?
12:18 < matta-lt> i'm sure it's entirely possible
12:18 < eigood> someone add the vm tools link to the topic please
12:19 < matta-lt> i would love that
12:19 < matta-lt> -unstable is not that bad if you track i to know when to use it
12:21 < mael> Sir_Ahzz:  "vm-tools : http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/aliguori/vm-tools/" for the topic :)
12:22 < eigood> why does this channel have topiclock set?
12:22 < mael> "because" :)
12:22 < eigood> that's not a reason
12:23 < mael> hehe that's my 4 years old girl answears also :)
12:23 < mael> +what
12:24 < eigood> your 4 year old swears?
12:24 < eigood> you're a bad parent.
12:25 < mael> hehe
12:26 < eigood> Sir_Ahzz: in case you don't see the earlier stuff, remove topiclock from this channel
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13:18 -!- Sir_Ahzz changed the topic of #xen to: Xen Homepage->  http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/Research/SRG/netos/xen/index.html || Xen Wiki -> http://wiki.xensource.com || vm-tools : http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/aliguori/vm-tools/
13:19 -!- mode/#xen [-t ] by Sir_Ahzz
13:19 -!- mode/#xen [+t ] by ChanServ
13:19 < Sir_Ahzz> hmm, have to check with chanserv on how.
13:20 < Sir_Ahzz> set
13:20 -!- mode/#xen [-t ] by Sir_Ahzz
13:20 -!- mode/#xen [+t ] by ChanServ
13:21 -!- mode/#xen [-t ] by Sir_Ahzz
13:21 < Sir_Ahzz> there we go. :)
13:24 < eigood> good boy
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13:46 < riel> gah
13:46 < riel> I am so sick of xen not being upstream
13:46 < riel> every other week things change so much upstream that the xen patches get disabled in fedora, and I spend a day or two fixing it up again
13:48 < cw> riel: xen or xen-linux?
13:49 < cw> riel: also, if you are using xen-linux trailng the (now defunct) BK head do you have 'fixup' patches anywhere?
13:49 < riel> xen-linux
13:50 < riel> fixup patches up to last week in fedora rawhide
13:50 < cw> riel: are they rh specific?
13:51 < riel> not the ones in linux-2.6.9-xen-compile.patch
13:51 < riel> the rh specific ones are split out, eg linux-2.6.8-execshield-xen.patch
13:53 < matta> i've been using the FC4 RPM's on a production host for about 5 days now
13:53 < matta> so far so good
13:54 < riel> matta: yeah, the FC4t2 RPMs are good
13:54 < matta> kernel-xen0-2.6.11-1.1226_FC4
13:55 < riel> sometimes stuff breaks, but I try to get it in a good shape before a test release
13:55 < matta> that was due to xend acting up on a host
13:55 < riel> yeah, 1226 is a good kernel
13:55 < matta> (as in, refusing to start)
13:55 < matta> someone trying to upgrade the host to FC4 
13:55 < matta> and then xend/xen _totally_ not liking FC4
13:56 < matta> notably due to new gcc/glibc/python
13:57 < riel> so you didn't use the xen RPM from FC4 ?
13:58 < matta> not at first
13:58 < matta> it is using the xen RPM now
13:58 < matta> xen-2-20050403
13:58 < riel> yeah, the xend/xen interface seems to have changed about 3-4 weeks ago
13:59 < matta> but custom xenU kernels
13:59 < matta> as I was stating before, i'll be happy when xend is gone :)
13:59 < matta> seems to be the source of (most) all my problems
13:59 < cw> riel: so you know if there is an easy way to get details/stats on the grant-tables for a given domain?
14:00 < riel> cw: dunno
14:01 < matta> riel: i know this is probably not your dept... but the e2fsprogs included with fc3/4 has a patch to mke2fs that makes other distros not able to boot off of a FS made with it
14:01 < matta> i've been maintaining my own e2fsprogs package on my servers... but if Fedora/RedHat is serious about virtualisation they should make sure to at least try to play nice :)
14:01 < riel> matta: oh dear, better file a bug on that
14:02 < riel> please cc: me on that bug, so I can help push it along
14:02 < matta> i was planning on it, I wanted to figure out which patch it is that does it first
14:03 < riel> just file it, chances are the e2fsprogs package maintainer knows ;)
14:05 < eigood> matta: just install debian; then, you'll never need to switch.
14:05  * eigood hides
14:05 < matta> lol
14:05 < matta> i'm a redhat/fedora guy
14:05 < riel> yeah, run xen 1.2 on debian ;)
14:06 < matta> i've administered debian quite a bit, but RPM, init scripts, etc of redhat is what I know the best 
14:06 < eigood> riel: 2.0 is in experimental
14:06 < matta> if I wanted gcc 2.95 i'd run debian
14:06 < eigood> only reason it's not in unstable is because I don't handle upgrades from 1.2
14:06 < matta> ubuntu looks good though :)
14:06 < riel> eigood: that is so wrong
14:06 < eigood> matta: has redhat released a *stable* version with xen?
14:07 < riel> eigood: 2.0 is stable, 3.0 is experimental
14:07 < eigood> riel: no, it's not.  debian is about upgrading.
14:07 < eigood> riel: debian experimental
14:07 < riel> from here it looks like a downgrade ;)
14:07 < eigood> just because something is in debian's experimental doesn't mean the code is experimental
14:08 < eigood> and yes, I have had a report of an upgrade from 1.2 to 2.0 breaking something
14:08 < eigood> there was a stale deb/file that caused the 2.0 stuff to not work
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15:29 < Sir_Ahzz> riel, ran xen 1.2 on debian. ;) still smoother than redhat has ever been for me. 
15:29 < Sir_Ahzz> *ducks and runs like mad!*
15:35 < mikegrb> Sir_Ahzz: :D
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15:57 < Sir_Ahzz> how was xencon mike?
15:58 < mikegrb> Sir_Ahzz: I was not there :/
15:58 < Sir_Ahzz> oh
15:58 < Sir_Ahzz> my mistake. :)
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16:04 < riel> you didn't miss all that much
16:04 < riel> the technical stuff was fun, and meeting each other was fun, but there weren't many ground-breaking activities
16:05 < riel> possibly the most useful was working out a plan on how to get xen-linux merged upstream, and deciding on who got to do what part of the work
16:11 < matta> riel: have you/redhat completely abandoned vserver?
16:12 < eigood> Sir_Ahzz: I'm making debs of ietd, btw
16:12 < riel> matta: vserver isn't really compatible with selinux
16:12 < riel> matta: since the selinux subsystem isn't easily virtualisable
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16:15 < Sir_Ahzz> eigood, hmmm?
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16:20 < cfreak> n8
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16:21 < eigood> Sir_Ahzz: iscsitarget.sf.net
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16:53 < eigood> hmm, xen on a 32-way
17:01 < matta> yeah
17:01 < matta> interesting... another big iron company announcing it's "support" of xen
17:08 < riel> matta: which company ?
17:09 < jeroney> riel: Unisys
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17:10 < riel> neat
17:10 < riel> do you have a URL ? ;)
17:10 < riel> oh, I see - on the list
17:10 < riel> not a press release ;)
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18:47 < xai> Im having problems with system reboots. Seems like when the network gets activated that it starts to have problems.
18:47 < xai> I can't seem to get any log information from /var/log/messages.. nothing there.
18:48 < xai> I did have a watchdog timer on in the bios but I have turned that off..
18:49 < xai> I have no idea why that would have been on anyway.
18:49 < cw> xai: the system is rebooting? xen isn't doing it?
18:50 < xai> Not that I know of.. 
18:51 < xai> BTW, is there a list of kernel options and description of why they need to be on for Xen0 kernels? I see that pre-emptible kernel was on.
18:53 < surriel> you could use a serial console to get info from the system
18:53 < surriel> the dom0 kernel and xen will usually print out messages on such a spontaneous reboot
18:55 < cw> xen can be told not to reboot on dom0 crash too
18:55 < cw> noreboot i think, let me grep
18:56 < cw> xai: yeah, pass noreboot to xen and see if when it dies you are left with something
18:56 < cw> if it's rebooting still, it might be a triple fault :(
18:59 < niv> xai: preemptible is not required for xen, afaik
19:03 < surriel> preemptible might well interfere
19:03  * surriel has preemptible off 
19:03 < surriel> (I don't see how it would be useful with xen anyway)
19:04 < niv> Yep, would be safer to turn it off...
19:08 < cw> i don't see how kernel preemption should be a problem other than probably being less well tested
19:08 < cw> it might be that it does barf and takes dom0 down though
19:09 < eigood> good
19:09 < eigood> the debs for iscsitarget(ietd) are mostly done
19:09 < soffi> mmmmm iscsi target
19:09 < eigood> I wish I didn't have to do work stuff
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19:52 < niv> anyone else running into build breakage?
19:56 < cw> niv: breakage where?
20:00 < xai> Sorry, i had to go get my son. I'll turn it off. I also have several encryption options on.. 
20:00 < xai> I don't know how those got into my kernel, but if i dont need it I'll off it.
20:01 < niv> make[2]: Entering directory `/usr/src/xen-unstable/tools/xentrace'
20:01 < niv> gcc  -m32 -march=i686 -Wall -Werror -O3 -I ../../tools/python/xen/lowlevel/xc -I . ./../tools/libxc -I ../../tools/libxutil -o xentrace xentrace.c -L../../tools/libx c -L../../tools/libxutil -lxc -lxutil
20:01 < niv> In file included from ../../tools/libxc/xen/trace.h:11,
20:01 < niv>                  from xentrace.c:25:
20:01 < niv> /usr/include/asm/atomic.h:40:2: #warning Using kernel header in userland program. BAD!
20:01 < niv> looking into it
20:01 < cw> niv: gentoo?
20:01 < niv> not seeing any error, this shouldn't be fatal, but it is
20:01 < niv> FC3
20:01 < xai> After turning off the nic, and watchdog in the bios, its been up for over an hour now.
20:02 < niv> I see a patch to fix this 9 hours ago in BK, but can't use BK to download current src at the mo
20:02 < niv> but previous code was this way for a while..strange..
20:02 < cw> niv: i don't see that warning here after a full build...  might wanna check to see where xen is getting it's headers from
20:02 < cw> niv: for FC3 can't you just use surriel's rpms?
20:03 < niv> I was picking up later source, since I needed to apply my own patches..
20:03 < niv> hmm, all I did was untar the src tarball and do make
20:16 < xai> I have some really wierd kernel options on in this kernel: /dev/cpu/*/cpuid - CPU information support, /proc/kcore, encryption.. 
20:18 < xai> I think the BIOS watchdog was giving me those reboots, but Im still not sure yet.
20:19 < xai> Is /proc/kcore support needed by Xen0?
20:19 < cw> no
20:21 < xai> Thanks..  should I be looking at the stock configs for this info?
20:25 < xai> I see in the stock configuration files many of these things are on..
20:29 < cw> /proc/kcore won't hurt, some things use it --- but it's not needed
20:45 < xai> What about CPUID support?
20:45 < xai> I see it on in all config files .
20:50 < xai> Would anyone have a bare-bones 2.6.10-xen0 config file I could look at?
20:51 < cw> xai: i have one, im not sure if it's bare-bones though and it's specific to my hw and fs so you would need to frob that
20:52 < cw> actually, i guess i nuked it
20:52 < xai>  ;(
20:52 < cw> what's wrong with the ones supplied?
20:52 < xai> Well, next time you run accross one, shout at me.
20:53 < xai> I'm glad to see surriel is a permanent fixture here.
20:54 < cw> xai: dist/install/boot/config-2.6.11-xen0 is close, just tweak that for you CPU and hardware
20:59 < xai> I know this is somewhere in the faq, but i can't find it: how can I (if even possible) merge my version of xen-2.0 with a newer version. ?
21:00 < cw> what do you mean?
21:01 < cw> you have 2.0 install and want 2.0.5?
21:01 < xai> yea.. just unpack?
21:01 < xai> and move .configs?
21:01 < cw> i personally remove the old install first, but i guess dropping it over the top should work
21:02 < cw> the .configs are used for building the kernels, they are not part of the install
21:04 < xai> sure.. Ok, for some reaon (im dense today) i thought there was some sort of merging.
21:06 < cw> you can use your old .configs for building the kernel(s) if you like, that should be fine
21:06 < cw> and if they work, it's not a bad idea
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21:18 < xai> for some reason, i thought 2.0.5 would have 2.6.11 instead of 2.6.10..
21:18 < cw> use xeno-unstable for 2.6.11
21:18 < cw> or surriel rpms
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21:20 < xai> ok.. I'll be patient and stick with 2.0.5
21:22 < MarkWilliamson> -testing (i.e. will be the 2.0.6 release) contains 2.6.11 support I think
21:23 < MarkWilliamson> xai: so if you want 2.6.11 but don't want to use -unstable, that would be the best option
21:23 < MarkWilliamson> I imagine 2.0.6 will get released anyhow in the not too distant future
21:25 < xai> I'm in no rush, just got the curiosties.
21:26 < MarkWilliamson> :-)
21:27 < MarkWilliamson> it's just 2.6.11 wasn't release early enough for 2.0.5
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21:34 < cw> MarkWilliamson: 2.0.5.1 :)
21:34 < cw> MarkWilliamson: i assume 2.0.5 -> 2.0.6 is pretty small anyhow?
21:34 < MarkWilliamson> :-)
21:34 < MarkWilliamson> I'm not sure actually, didn't the block performance fixes go in after 2.0.5?
21:35 < cw> yes
21:35 < cw> but those didn't look large to me (well, the stuff on the list)
21:35 < MarkWilliamson> The actual diffs will probably still be quite small but significant :-)
21:36 < MarkWilliamson> And there's probably various sparse tree fixes for changing kernel APIs.
21:36 < cw> MarkWilliamson: do you guys test/use 2.4.x or 2.6.x as dom0 mostly?
21:36 < cw> MarkWilliamson: actually, the AGP stuff will be in there too
21:37 < MarkWilliamson> cw:  I think 2.6 is almost exclusively used for dom0 testing
21:37 < MarkWilliamson> cw:  ^ ah, ok.
21:37 < cw> MarkWilliamson: there is also a gs-related fix somewhere maybe?
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21:38 < MarkWilliamson> cw: I don't remember but it's possible
22:25 < xai> Well I'm not getting any spontaneous reboots now.. good for now.. bad then.
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--- Log closed Mon Apr 11 23:59:01 2005