--- Day changed

--- Log opened Mon May 02 05:06:14 2005
05:06 -!- mode/#xen [+nt] by kinetic.oftc.net
05:19 -!- mode/#xen [-o VS_ChanLog   ] by uranium.oftc.net
05:19 -!- mode/#xen [-t ] by uranium.oftc.net
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05:19 -!- mode/#xen [+o Sir_Ahzz   ] by uranium.oftc.net
05:19 -!- kinetic.oftc.net changed the topic of #xen to: Xen Homepage->  http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/Research/SRG/netos/xen/index.html || Xen Wiki -> http://wiki.xensource.com || vm-tools : http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/aliguori/vm-tools/
05:20 < mael> lo soffi 
05:20 < mael> knewt:  are you around?
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07:25 < soffi> mael: I changed the /~xen homepage :P
07:27 < mael> soffi:  yeah!
07:27 < mael> it's sexy now :)
07:27 < soffi> hehe
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07:29 < mael> bad weather in Iceland last week-end?
07:30 < mael> soffi:  do you need to turn the images into tarballs?
07:30 < mael> I can do it for you if you need
07:30 < soffi> yup
07:30 < soffi> and yup
07:30 < mael> k then :)
07:30 < soffi> how do you do it ?
07:31 < soffi> tar -cpf ?
07:31 < mael> I dunno yet :)
07:31 < mael> tar cvzf <tarballname> <mounting_point> I guess :)
07:32 < soffi> heh
07:32 < soffi> thanks :)
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10:13 < xai> soffi: im here now.
10:14 < xai> soffi: I don't use Ubuntu, but I do have a very stripped down version of Debian.
10:22 < xai> I think its about 20MB in size.. 
10:23 < demon> for a stripped down debian?
10:23 < demon> I'm guessing that's with info pages, man pages, /usr/share/doc, etc. excised?
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10:24 < mael> demon:  yeah
10:24 < mael> a sarge base install for i386 is approx? 30 MB
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10:35 < xai> Yea.. its not totally stripped.
10:36 < xai> Of course you can always use debootstrap
10:38 < xai> That is in .tgz format, and no, it does have some man pages.. 
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10:45 < xai> Anyone remember how to upload to soffi?
10:46 < soffi> yes I do
10:49 -!- services.oftc.net changed the topic of #xen to: Xen Homepage->  http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/Research/SRG/netos/xen/index.html || Xen Wiki -> http://wiki.xensource.com || vm-tools : http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/aliguori/vm-tools/
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11:11 < xai> demon: you are right: no docs in my sarge baremetal.
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11:20 < xai> You can remove another 3Mb from the archive by removing /var/lib/apt/list/htt* files.
11:20 < xai> or 13MB from uncompressed image.. apt-get update just re-populates it.
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11:21 < mael> lo knewt_
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11:28 < mael> MarkWilliamson, knewt : is your CoW work planned for xen 3.0 or later?
11:28 < knewt> my CoW work is independant of xen itself
11:29 < xai> mael: sarge base install as i have it is about 69MB including some apt caches. 54 if you delete those.
11:29 < xai> When in .tbz format its about 17MB stripped.
11:29 < MarkWilliamson> mael: basic XenFS may be in beta by 3.0, CoW under XenFS will definitely be post-3.0.
11:29 < mael> xai:  without the cache my tgz images are 30 MB only (the ones on soffi's webserver)
11:30 < demon> so what is xenfs all about?
11:30 < mael> knewt:  you're using devicemapper, right?
11:30 < knewt> mael: yep
11:30 < MarkWilliamson> demon: from the user's PoV it's much like NFS
11:31 < MarkWilliamson> but it uses a shared memory transport directly rather than going over the virtual network
11:31 < demon> ah...
11:31 < mael> if I understand correctly, you copy modified blocks from a Read Only FS?
11:31 < xai> mael: is yours a stable version?
11:32 < MarkWilliamson> demon: also, it has a unified machine-wide buffer cache
11:32 < mael> xai:  no its a sarge
11:32 < MarkWilliamson> so blocks can be directly accessed (safely) from the server buffer cache and shared in-place.  saves on IO *and* on physical memory.
11:33 < demon> I see... what's the benefit over using xen blkdevs and a traditional linux FS?
11:33 < xai> mael: i don't see any sarge listed there right now..
11:33 < demon> management simplicity?
11:33 < mael> xai:  mmh yeah its the xenzoo stuff :))
11:33 < MarkWilliamson> demon:  yup.  coherent sharing between domains
11:34 < MarkWilliamson> but the shared buffer cache stuff is something you don't get with the xen blkdevs - might even perform better for some workloads
11:34 < xai> mael: ok.. sorry to duplicate your work.
11:34 < mael> xai:  no problem, actually a stripped version can be useful
11:35 < mael> knewt:  do  you have to assign blocks to your CoW volumes?
11:35 < MarkWilliamson> eventually, it'd be nice to support interdomain buffer cache for blk level sharing too.
11:38 < xai> soffi: has anyone tried the centos version yet?
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11:47 < knewt> mael: yes. a CoW volume needs to be at least the same size as the backing volume. a few K larger if you want to store the metadata in the same device as the CoW data
11:49 < mael> humm I'm not sure to understand
11:49 < mael> if you estimate only 10% of the read only disk to be modified, a tenth of the read only disk would be enough, no?
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12:04 < xai> I just uploaded my bare-metal woody version: 11MB in .tbz format.
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13:27 < knewt> mael: if you're using loopback volumes you could of course use sparse files as the CoW areas, but for simplicity and speed the mapper requires a contigous block device the size of the backing volume
13:29 < knewt> ever so slightly larger if you include the metadata in the same device as the CoW data instead of storing it seperately
13:32 < knewt> if someone were to write a "sparse" device-mapper target then you could even do sparse stuff direct to block devices
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18:02 < cartel> hey all
18:03 < cartel> im about to try installing on x86_64 :) where do i get a tarball or whatever supporting it? 
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18:05 < jeroney> cartel: x86_64 is still very unstable
18:06 < jeroney> cartel: also does not support domains yet
18:06 < jeroney> cartel: all you need to do is compile on x86_64 machine from xen-unstable source
18:08 < rharper> cartel: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/Research/SRG/netos/xen/downloads/xen-unstable-src.tgz
18:16 < cartel> cool
18:16 < cartel> thx
18:16 < cartel> jeroney: the point in trying is so i can test and provide feedback... does not support domains??????
18:17 < cartel> if it doesnt support domains whats the point in trying it? lol
18:18 < jeroney> cartel: getting domains up and going is what I'm working on now
18:18 < jeroney> cartel: wanted to tell you that so you wouldn't have the wrong expectations 
18:19 < jeroney> cartel: when x86-64 is fully up and going you will see mails on the mailing list
18:19 < cartel> wait... doesnt support 64 bit domains but supports 32 bit domains yes?
18:19 < jeroney> no
18:19 < jeroney> cartel: initalially it will only support 64bit domains
18:19 < jeroney> cartel: 32bit domain support is on the list but not coming soon
18:20 < cartel> so im better off just running in 32bit mode
18:20 < jeroney> cartel: for now yes
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18:21 < cartel> damn and i spent yesterday configuring debian-amd64
18:21 < cartel> hehe
18:22 < cartel> so are all the celebrities here? wheres ian?
18:22  * cartel thinks he was preemptive asking work to order a amd64 for xen testing
18:24 < knewt> Mark often pops in. was in late afternoon today, and going by past experiences might pop in again later tonight
18:25 < cartel> simon ever here?
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19:44 < aliguori> wow, dom0 apic.. sweet, has anyone tried yet?
19:44 < aliguori> i'm compiling right now...
19:45 < aliguori> s/apic/acpi/
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19:51 < homebaum> aliguori: I thought it was going to be IOAPIC and ACPI.  Did they both show up?
19:58 < knewt> [[ Move PCI device scanning to dom0. Enable ACPI in dom0. This should greatly reduce the complexity of xen and move the complexity of dealing with hardware bugs and workarounds etc to dom0.
19:58 < knewt> The ioapic local apic (and hence all the vectors) are owned by the hypervisor. Dom0 enables the ACPI interpreter, handles PCI and ACPI based interrupt routing. ]]
19:59 < homebaum> knewt: thanks
20:00 < knewt> [[ Functionality not yet provided: o) acpi=off to support machines with broken or no acpi support.  o) support for driver domains ]]
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20:09 < aliguori> homebaum: yeah, i mistyped
20:09 < aliguori> acronyms are just too close to each other :-0
20:10 < homebaum> aliguori: well it was, I thought, suppose to be a little of both ACPI and APIC
20:10 < homebaum> But apparently no IOAPIC. 
20:10 < aliguori> homebaum: i'm just hoping that my thinkpad will stop freezing now
20:10 < homebaum> Good luck there
20:11 < homebaum> My thinkpad, finally, installed ok and seemed to work.
20:11 < knewt> i'm finally going to be able to sensibly try out xen on my laptop :)
20:11 < aliguori> homebaum: with xen-unstable?  my laptop dies whenever the monitor shuts off
20:11 < homebaum> I've got to chase down why X is not happy with Xen on my old home box - gripes about the agpart.  I thought there was a work-around for this
20:12 < aliguori> disabling it in the bios doesn't seem to help
20:12 < homebaum> I left xen running on my laptop over the weekend.  Monitor was shutoff several times, but came back no problem
20:12 < aliguori> hmmmm
20:13 < homebaum> Couldn't get a clean shutdown today, though, when I was heading into the office
20:13 < aliguori> you have a t41 right?
20:13 < homebaum> Mine is a T40
20:13 < aliguori> ahhh
20:14 < cilkay> Hi. After several kernel builds, I don't seem to be any closer to getting Xen going. I suspect it has to do with support for the RAID controller on the server. lspci reports that the RAID bus controller is AMI MegaRAID, Rev. 20. When I run make menuconfig, the only MegaRAID I see is LSI Logic, legacy. The new LSI Logis is also MegaRAID. Should I select one of those?
20:15 < cilkay> aliguori, homebaum I run Mandrake 10.1, without Xen, on my TP A21p, no problems.
20:15 < aliguori> cilkay: i'd use whatever you normally use
20:16 < cilkay> aliguori, lsmod reports megaraid
20:16 < cilkay> I didn't have to build a custom kernel for that machine - Mandrake auto detected all the hardware.
20:17 < aliguori> you'll have to dive into the configs and see..
20:18 < aliguori> cilkay, if you build both as modules, you should be ok
20:18 < cilkay> Presumably, I'd need an initrd to make that work.
20:19 < aliguori> i don't see why
20:19 < aliguori> if you're already using an initrd then perhaps
20:19 < cilkay> How would the kernel know that it is supposed to use a module to be able to see the root otherwise?
20:20 < cilkay> ... unless the module is compiled in the kernel?
20:20 < aliguori> yup
20:25 < knewt> cilkay: "LSI Logic Legacy MegaRAID Driver" aka MEGARAID_LEGACY is the module "megaraid"
20:27 < cilkay> knewt, thanks. I've started the make. Will see how it goes.
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20:29 < aliguori> does anyone know if this is a gcc-ism?
20:29 < aliguori> return read_config_nybble(router, 0x5C, (pirq-1)1);
20:29 < aliguori> pirq is an int
20:30 < aliguori> arch/xen/i386/pci/irq.c:274
20:32 < aliguori> it's in the patch
20:32 < yosh> in a vanilla kernel that reads (pirq-1)^1
20:34 < aliguori> wow!
20:35 < aliguori> that was munged by thunderbird
20:35 < aliguori> it changed it to (pirq-1) raised to the 1 power
20:35 < yosh> hah
20:35 < aliguori> and the copy-paste copied it as (pirq-1)1
20:35 < aliguori> that's insane.
20:35 < aliguori> yosh: thanks for the pointer btw
20:35 < yosh> np
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20:55 < knewt> ok, having coded a couple of features today that i was originally intending to do later, instead of what i /was/ intending to code today, i think it's time to call it quits on dm-cow until tomorrow
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23:43 < cilkay> I'm still struggling with building a kernel. I used make menuconfig and selected the QLA1280 module to be compiled into the kernel. When I do make install, I get: No module qla1280 found for kernel 2.6.10-xen0 and it aborts. Any suggestions?
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23:48 < cilkay> I'm getting ready to throw in the towel on getting Xen going on Mandrake 10.2 as dom0. Does it really make much difference which OS dom0 is based on?
23:49 < cilkay> As far as I can tell, dom0 is only used to host other virtual machines, which can run various unmodified Linux distros or *BSD.
23:51 < cilkay> If that is really the case, dom0 could be NetBSD, which I don't know much about but it apparently has the Xen patch incorporated in the kernel.
23:51 < cilkay> Would using NetBSD for dom0 and MDK for dom1 be feasible.
23:51 < cilkay> ?
23:51 < caker> cilkay: it shouldn't make much difference which OS dom0 is, no
23:52 < caker> cilkay: you're doing all your "make"s with ARCH=xen, right?
23:52 < cilkay> Presumably, you run OpenSSH on dom0 so you can start/stop other domains, right?
23:53 < cilkay> caker, I did: make menuconfig, make, make install - that's it.
23:53 < caker> cilkay: you need to run make menuconfig ARCH=xen, make ARCH=xen, etc..
23:53 < caker> or, export ARCH=xen
23:54 < cilkay> k
23:54 < cilkay> would that account for the missing qla1280 module?
23:54 < caker> possibly
23:54 < cilkay> OK, will try that now. Thanks.
23:58 < demon> well, the kernel you use as dom0 has to (a) know how to talk to the hardware, and (b) know how to provide frontend virtual NIC and block device services for other domains
23:58 < demon> afaik, netbsd can't yet be dom0 with xen 2
--- Log closed Mon May 02 23:59:00 2005