--- Day changed

--- Log opened Mon May 02 23:59:01 2005
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00:22 < cilkay> Built and installed a kernel with ARCH=xen - it still does not boot, though with a different problem this time. It starts loading the kernel but then reboots automatically. I have no idea what it actually outputs to the console as it doesn't stay long enough for me to read it.
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00:26 < demon> well, as others have mentioned, you can append the 'noreboot' option to the xen hyperkernel's command line
00:26 < demon> that'll keep it from rebooting the machine, so you can see what it spits out
00:27 < demon> did you 'mkbuildtree' from the sparse tree in the xen source first, then do 'make ARCH=xen menuconfig', configure the kernel, and build it?
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00:51 < cilkay> demon, no, I had not done the mkbuildtree. I didn't see that anywhere in the docs.
00:52 < cilkay> However, I just tried installing from the binary package.
00:52 < cilkay> Quite accidentally, I set the 2.4.29 kernel to be the default boot.
00:52 < cilkay> It booted, though it could not find modules.config
00:53 < cilkay> So, I tried setting the 2.6.9 as the default, rebooted, it didn't boot - looked for an NFS server, which doesn't exist here.
00:53 < cilkay> I'll try the mkbuildtree.
00:53 < cilkay> ... first
01:01 < cilkay> demon, what is the "linux tree to xenify"?
01:01 < cilkay> Do I just untar the kernel source from kernel.org and point mkbuildtree at that?
01:02 < demon> that's the linux source tree to make into a tree that supports building a XenoLinux kernel
01:04 < cilkay> I'll take that to mean the uncompressed kernel source tree.
01:04 < demon> yes
01:05 < cilkay> Maybe that's what make dist does.
01:05 < cilkay> I had run that at one point.
01:05 < cilkay> Anyway, I'm running mkbuildtree now - taking a while.
01:06 < cilkay> ... it's counting electrons or something
01:07 < cilkay> I get tons of this: find: warning: you have specified the -maxdepth option after a non-option argument -type, but options are not positional (-maxdepth affects tests specified before it as well as those specified after it).  Please specify options before other arguments.
01:07 < cilkay> It just keeps spewing that to stdout.
01:07 < cilkay> ugh
01:28 < cilkay> demon, any idea why I'm getting the error noted above when I run mkbuildtree?
01:44 < caker> cilkay: want some tips?
01:45 < cilkay> caker, would be most appreciated:) I'm running make dist now so the machine is otherwise occupied.
01:45 < cilkay> make dist seems to do the mkbuildtree, amongst other things.
01:46 < cilkay> It too spewed the same error so perhaps it's nothing to worry about.
01:46 < caker> cilkay: well, one way to cheat is to download the -src package (take your pick, -testing and -unstable are both working on my end), chmod 644 the top level Makefile, edit the Makefile and change the KERNELS line to just linux-2.6-xen0 (for now), then run "make kernels" ...
01:47 < caker> cilkay: when you start to see it compiling the kernel, control-c, cd into linux-2.6.11-xen0, and run make menuconfig ARCH=xen there, set up your options ...
01:48 < caker> cilkay: doing it that way creates a proper xen0/dom0 tree, so you can mess with all your config options until you get things working
01:48 < cilkay> This seems really fragile.
01:48 < caker> cilkay: nah -- the -src tarballs work.
01:48 < caker> cilkay: it's just that vanilla doesn't have Xen yet, that's all...
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01:56 < cilkay> caker, no idea what just happened - I was just typing a response to you when my laptop had a brain freeze and started beeping constantly as if a key was stuck on the keyboard. The machine was completely unresponsive - had to power off/on.
01:57 < cilkay> Of course my make dist, which had been running for about 20 minutes on the other machine, died too as I was doing it via ssh.
01:57 < caker> man screen :)
01:59 < cilkay> Wouldn't have done much good unless I had detached, would it?
02:00 < caker> it would have, indeed
02:01 < cilkay> Aargh! I just found something on the Xen site, Two Kernel Monte, which would have saved me much grief and time earlier this year when I had to do a remote OS install on a colocated box with no remote hands support.
02:12 < cilkay> caker, I'm doing what you suggested. Doing make menuconfig ARCH=xen now. After that, what? make dist?
02:13 < caker> cilkay: cd ../; make install
02:13 < cilkay> ok, thanks
02:14 < cilkay> caker, where in NS are you btw?
02:14 < caker> cilkay: after you run through the install -- if you need to make .config changes, you can just do them in the linux-2.6.11-xen0 directory... export ARCH=xen; make menuconfig; make; make modules_install; make install ...
02:14 < cilkay> ok
02:15 < caker> cilkay: NS?
02:15 < cilkay> Nova Scotia
02:15 < caker> oh, I'm in Nashville, TN, USA :)
02:15 < cilkay> aha
02:16 < cilkay> ns.theshore implied Nova Scotia
02:16 < cilkay> I thought TN was landlocked.
02:16 < caker> name server :)
02:16 < caker> haha
02:16 < caker> I used to live in NJ
02:27 < caker> Is there some trick to get vcpus to work in -unstable?
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02:40 < cilkay> caker, uname -a ==> 2.6.10-xen0 #1 Tue May 3 06:32:50 GMT 2005 i686 Pentium III (Coppermine) unknown GNU/Linux
02:40  * caker gives you a highfive
02:40 < cilkay> Not so fast - saw a few FATAL errors - brb.
02:41 < cilkay> May  3 06:38:52 saturn modprobe: FATAL: Could not load /lib/modules/2.6.10-xen0/modules.dep: No such file or directory
02:41 < cilkay> Is that a big deal?
02:41 < cilkay> I presume it would not have booted if it had not found the modules it needed.
02:46 < cilkay> caker, is that FATAL error I listed above a problem?
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02:53 < cilkay> I'm going to declare victory, at least for tonight. Good night all. Thanks especially to demon and caker.
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05:45 < mael> soffi:  I have a tar.bz2 for the Mandrake10.1 domU image
05:45 < soffi> cool
05:45 < mael> that's the last one missing if I'm correct
05:46 < soffi> and does it work ? :P
05:46 < mael> Hehe I don't know yet :)
05:46 < mael> I installed Xen 2.0.5 on qemu but it's not working :\
05:46 < soffi> :(
05:47 < soffi> mmmmm my Tiger should arrive in the mail today
05:47 < mael> hehe
05:47  * mael is too expensive I think
05:48 < mael> I don't see why I should upgrade from 10.3
05:48 < soffi> dashboard :)
05:48 < soffi> mm
05:48 < soffi> and a Safari that works I've been told
05:49 < mael> well I use FFX
05:49 < soffi> I use that on my workstation here at work... but Safari is a lot quicker on the mac
05:51 < mael> maybe
05:51 < mael> anyway, I'm used to having ffx on windows, linux and macosx
05:51 < mael> my bookmarks are synchronised automatically this way
05:51 < soffi> yeah.. I only use two computers
05:53 < soffi> and I use spurl.net which is an online bookmarking service
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06:13 < mael> soffi:  do you want me to upload the Mandrake tar.bz2 or shall I test it first?
06:18 < soffi> test it frist :)
06:18 < soffi> I'm getting enough flames to my gmail as it is :)
06:19 < mael> hehe
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07:53 < mael> has anyone managed to get xen running with qemu?
07:53 < mael> I have a psmouse kbd error on boot (with xen 2.0.5, dom0 has a 2.6.10-dom0 kernel)
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09:35 < mael> soffi:  ok, Mandrake10.1 image seems to work
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09:36 < mael> and btw we should set a rule for fstab/root device
09:36 < mael> otherwise it's a mess to know what to set on the fstab/xen config
09:40 < soffi> how did you make an image and get the tarball on it
09:40 < soffi> ?
09:40 < soffi> (for a doc you see)
09:40 < knewt> hehe. [[ First off, I'd suggest printing out a copy of the GNU coding standards, and NOT read it.  Burn them, it's a great symbolic gesture. ]]
09:49 < mael> soffi:  bunzip Mandrake10.1.img.bz2 && mount -o loop Mandrake10.1.img /mnt && cd /mnt && tar cvjf /tmp/Mandrake10.1.tar.bz2 *
09:52 < soffi> bunzip ?
09:52 < soffi> and -j ?
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09:53 < mael> it's the bzip2 software
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10:03 < soffi> no just upload it
10:03 < soffi> just hat line of yours.. bunzip and then tar ?
10:03 < mael> yep
10:03 < soffi> ahh ok that line is unpacking and creating an image
10:03 < soffi> got it ;)
10:03 < mael> you uncompress the bzip2 filesystem image
10:05 < soffi> ahhhhhhhhhhh
10:05 < soffi> ok 
10:05 < soffi> me so dum
10:05 < soffi> my eyes str_replace'd the .img with .tar
10:05 < mael> lol
10:05 < soffi> I was thinking "what the hell is he doing making stuff so complicated" :P
10:06 < mael> bad eyes, change eyes
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10:06 < soffi> must upgrade to tiger eyes
10:06 < mael> haha
10:07 < mael> so you got your mailing today?
10:07 < soffi> nope :(
10:07 < soffi> that's what I get for not living in the capital
10:08 < mael> but you work in Reykjavik, no?
10:08 < soffi> nope
10:08 < soffi> Reykjavik is the capital
10:08 < soffi> i work and live in Grundarfjörður :)
10:08 < mael> ooh ok
10:09 < mael> I thought you lived in a small town but worked in Reykjavik
10:09 < soffi> nope
10:09 < mael> Grundarfjörður : isn't it the place where they shot that film about a young boy that commit suicide in the end? ;)
10:10 < hollis> you gave away the ending!
10:10 < soffi> hehe
10:10 < mael> lol
10:10 < mael> sorry hollis :)
10:10 < soffi> no I don't think so :)
10:10 < soffi> what film was that
10:11 < soffi> Noi Albinoi ?
10:11 < soffi> or for you worthless mortals "Noi the Albino"
10:13 < mael> yeah Noi Albinoi
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10:14 < mael> we had the original title in France
10:15 < soffi> ahh
10:15 < soffi> it was a funny flick
10:15 < soffi> that charachter is hilarious
10:21 < mael> The town is probably the only one in the world where the building authorities have provided allotments for the "hidden people" or elves
10:21 < mael> hehe
10:21 < soffi> hehe
10:22 < soffi> that's Þingeyri
10:22 < mael> oooh you're linked with Paimpol!
10:23 < soffi> hehe
10:23 < soffi> we are ?
10:24 < mael> I don't know the english word :)
10:25 < mael> the "Paimpol - vinabær Grundarfjarðar" stuff
10:26 < mael> Paimpol is a small town in the part of France I come from (Brittany)
10:33 < soffi> ahh
10:34 < soffi> there are some kids here now from france
10:34 < soffi> the brittany part
10:34 < soffi> we've got french flags allover the place
10:35 < mael> argh
10:36 < mael> they should be Britton flags, not french :)
10:36 < mael> (black and white with stripes)
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12:45 < soffi> mmmm LVM mmm *drool*
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14:04 < xai> soffi: you back from lunch?
14:24 < xai> Does anyone have a small gentoo root tree they can share?
14:30 < monrad> how small?
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14:44 < xai> under 50mb.
14:45 < xai> for a compressed tar.bz2 for example.
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18:13  * knewt wonders if mark will pop in today
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18:56 < soffi_> hola senjores y senjoritas
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19:00 < judge> hi
19:00 < judge> is there any problems with runnin xorg in domain0?
19:01 < judge> when i start x my screen goes black(like x is starting) hd light blinks for a while
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19:01 < judge> but nothing ever happens and my keyboard can't do anything at that point
19:02 < soffi_> haven't tried it
19:04 < judge> crappy thing is that the Xorg.0.log file is empty after this too
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19:17 < judge> managed to get a log this time
19:17 < judge> http://glek.net/~taras//xorg.log
19:19  * knewt does the happy dance
19:20 < knewt> yaaay, got the vast majority of my CoW target coded and working now. just the header variant i've still to do
19:21 < soffi_> knewt: excuse me for asking, but what does that mean and do? :)  (if you have the time to humour me)
19:22 < knewt> it's a device-mapper Copy-on-Write target
19:22 < soffi_> hmmm device-mapper like LVM ?
19:23 < judge> knewt: nice
19:23 < knewt> note, it doesn't support a smaller CoW device than the backing device. if you really want that you have to use a loopback device (sloooooooow)
19:23 < soffi_> would it work with a logical volume as a device}
19:24 < soffi_> or am I way off
19:24 < knewt> what it /does/ have in features though is: seperate bitmap device to cow device, or bitmap and cow interleaved in a single device; memory-only bitmap; background cowifier
19:25 < soffi_> me no speak this type of ingles
19:25 < soffi_> :-)
19:25 < knewt> soffi_: ooooh yes. my device path goes: disk -> bad-block-replacement device -> lvm2 volume -> evms volume
19:26 < soffi_> ok cool
19:26 < knewt> and when testing the CoW target that got extended as:  ..... evms volume -> cow target
19:26 < knewt> and i've got quick benchmark figures :)
19:27 < soffi_> ok I'm reading wikipedia and some google stuff on copy on write... but.. if you have the time... what does it mean in practice ? :)
19:27 < knewt> writing out a 1 gig file, blocksize 1 meg:
19:27 < soffi_> for a lame sysadmin like me
19:27 < knewt> linear target: 28.33 seconds, 0.08 stdev
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19:27 < knewt> cow mem-bitmap target: 28.71 seconds, 0.06 stdev
19:28 < knewt> cow interleaved target: 33.38 seconds, 0.04 stdev
19:28 < knewt> cow target: 34.45 seconds, 0.07 stdev
19:29 < knewt> soffi_: basically, you can have a standard image stored as a volume, and then create multiple new volumes /based/ on the original volume. any changes get written to the new volume, unmodified stuff gets read from the original volume
19:31 < soffi_> like an lvm snapshot ?
19:31 < knewt> if you use a sparse-file loopback device as the new volume storage, (slower than direct device access of course), you also only need as much disk space for the new volumes as changes are made
19:32 < knewt> soffi_: similar in some ways
19:37 < knewt> woah. just checked the source code and it's reached 1482/1875 SLOC/L
19:37 < knewt> 41K of source code
19:52 < xai> soffi: did you look at the debian tarballs I sent?
19:53 < aliguori> knewt: cow block device?
19:53 < knewt> aliguori: yep, done as a device-mapper target
19:53 < aliguori> hmmm, doesn't uml do something like this?
19:54 < aliguori> knewt: do you have code available?
19:56 < soffi_> cool
19:56 < soffi_> xai: nope, gonna do it tomorrow (on company time hehe)
19:57 < soffi_> I'm way exhausted
19:57 < aliguori> hmmmm
19:57 < aliguori> that seems like quite a reasonable thing to do..
20:07 < knewt> aliguori: it needs some work wrt to function layout and comments, there's /no/ docs at all so far, and the header-mode functionality hasn't been implemented yet, but i could email you a copy of the current state-of-play if you want
20:07 < soffi_> docs are overrated :P\
20:08 < knewt> heh. knowing what parameters you need to supply to set the mapping up is rather useful though :)
20:09 < knewt> right now you have to look at the code to figure it out
20:13 < aliguori> knewt: i'm mostly curious to know how you deal with fragmentation
20:13 < aliguori> the problem with cow is mapping copied blocks
20:14 < aliguori> you can do it the dumb way and require two block devices of equal size
20:14 < aliguori> you can mitigate the size issue with that by using a sparse loop device
20:14 < aliguori> but that'll suck wrt performance
20:15 < aliguori> doing a high-performance cow block device would be quite cool
20:16 < knewt> it's a simple "equal size" implementation. keeps memory usage reasonably low and speed reasonably high.
20:16 < aliguori> ah
20:16 < aliguori> why not just use dd :-)
20:17 < aliguori> hehe, yeah, i understand the use of that..  it's great for loop devices actually
20:18 < knewt> comes in three varieties. seperate metadata and cow devices, interleaved metadata and cow, and memory-only metadata
20:18 < aliguori> how do you do memory-only metadata?
20:19 < aliguori> is the cow invalid after reboot?
20:19 < knewt> yes
20:19 < knewt> but has its uses
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20:20 < knewt> s/reboot/unmap/ of course
20:20 < knewt> there's also a background cowifying option
20:22 < knewt> oops, that reminds me about a small feature i meant to code but forgot about. do that tomorrow before i mail the list for guinea-pigs^Wtesters
20:24 < aliguori> :)
20:24 < knewt> the header-mode stuff can wait for now. been working on this now mostly every day for a couple of weeks for varying amounts of time each day
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20:26 < knewt> well, it's not crashing or corrupting data for me, and i've done a pretty high number of test cycles as i've added new features (the quick boot time of a domU is lovely for this sort of thing). but this doesn't mean that it won't crash or corrupt for someone else
20:27 < knewt> aliguori: did you see my quick speed-test results earlier?
20:32 < aliguori> knewt: no sir
20:32 < aliguori> what was the test?
20:33 < knewt> writing out a 1 gig file (source from /dev/zero), blocksize 1 meg:
20:33 < knewt> linear target: 28.33 seconds, 0.08 stdev
20:33 < knewt> cow mem-bitmap target: 28.71 seconds, 0.06 stdev
20:33 < aliguori> ah
20:33 < aliguori> see
20:33 < knewt> cow interleaved target: 33.38 seconds, 0.04 stdev
20:33 < knewt> cow target: 34.45 seconds, 0.07 stdev
20:34 < aliguori> cow performance is hard to judge
20:34 < aliguori> i guess it doesn't matter for the 1-1 cows
20:34 < aliguori> :-)
20:35 < aliguori> but with a cow that does block mapping, it would seem that performance will degrade the more changes are made
20:38 < knewt> i was systematic with the test, even though it was quick-and-dirty. i had an original backing device to start that had >1gig free space. i booted it using the cow-m target with init=/bin/bash, and wrote the file out with dd. i then killed the vm. next the cow-i target, followed by the cow (initialising the bitmap afresh for each) and lastly the normal linear mapping. for the linear mapping i deleted the file. i then repeated the sequence a further 6 times, removed t
20:38 < knewt> hmm. that was more than i thought. did it all get through?
20:38 < aliguori> what were the cow'd devices?
20:38 < aliguori> loops?
20:38 < aliguori> or real devices
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20:39 < knewt> no, evms-mapped volumes  (lvm2 -> bbr -> disk)
20:40 < knewt> not that it would matter as much, as for the baseline i put in the linear mapping instead of accessing the volume directly
20:40 < aliguori> ah
20:40 < knewt> but yeah, everything for the speed test was done using evms-mapped device-mapper devices
20:41 < aliguori> cool
20:41 < knewt> unlike during development, where i was doing the cow mapping testing /inside/ the domU being used for the above test, and using loopback devices
20:43 < knewt> during initial development phases (until i had everything bar the actual "cow" stage coded) i was testing directly on my laptop, but i got bored/annoyed at having to reboot all the time so finally set up a domU on one of my servers just for test purposes :)
20:43 < knewt> did the editing on my laptop, built an updated kernel, scp'ed it to the server and booted the domU where i tested it out. and then back round to the start...
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20:51 < aliguori> hey rusty
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21:21 < rusty> aliguori: Hi!  I
21:22 < rusty> aliguori: Hi!  I've written a randomized tester for XenBusDaemon and the damn thing found some bugs 8(
21:23  * knewt makes a note to himself that it'd be a really good idea to comment the reason for his line of code that does "chnk->bio = (struct chunk *) chnk;"
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--- Log closed Tue May 03 23:59:01 2005