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04:08 < mael> hi
04:09 < mael> (especially hi rusty and MarkWilliamson as I'm usually off line when you're there)
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04:18 < rusty> ,ael: hi!
04:18 < rusty> m,ael: hi!
04:18 < rusty> mael: hi! (this time for sure!)
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04:40 < mael> lo soffi 
04:41 < soffi> lo mael
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09:34 < mael> MarkWilliamson:  I just read your post on qemu ML about kqemu instructions being incompatible with Xen as a host
09:34 < mael> I guess you've been playing with both qemu and xen then : have you managed to have a xen system running on qemu with kqemu?
10:05 < Robot101> xen on qemu on kqemu on xen?
10:05 < Robot101> on crack?
10:06 < mael> hehe
10:08 < soffi> shit... mediawiki requires some resources
10:08 < mael> what kind of ressources? (except mysql)?
10:08 < soffi> cpu :)
10:09 < soffi> I set it up on a shared hosting machine here at work
10:09 < mael> aaah
10:09 < mael> that's too bad :)
10:09 < soffi> and it almost grinded to a halt
10:09 < mael> hehe I guess your clients are happy :)
10:09 < soffi> I got an SMS from an nms in Reykjavik that some sites are down on the server
10:09 < soffi> so I stopped browsins and editing the wiki
10:10 < soffi> and everything went back to normal
10:10 < soffi> it's a 2.8ghz machine with 2gigs of ram :P
10:10 < mael> mmmh it's strange that it need *so* much ressources
10:11 < soffi> no the machine was loaded
10:11 < soffi> but mediawiki didn't help :P
10:12 < mael> is it the same server than the kvadratrot website?
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11:11 < rharper> hollis: for ppc64, what is HMT_low() and HMT_medium() used for? I see cpu_relax() using them as well, so I get a general idea. I guess I am looking for the x86 equivalent if there is one. I'm looking at spin_unlock_wait() in arch/ppc64/lib/locks.c for reference. 
11:12 < soffi> mael: it's a different box
11:12 < soffi> mael: the kvadratrot.net is a 2ghz celeron
11:13 < hollis> rharper: when you have hardware multithreading and you're going into a spin loop, you want to lower this thread's priority to give the other one more resources
11:13 < hollis> that's the cpu_relax() thing
11:13 < rharper> hollis: ok.  thanks
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11:34 < jonmason> Jon
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12:24 < MarkWilliamson> mael: you there?
12:25 < MarkWilliamson> sorry I missed you earlier...  I'd left the machine online but was probably asleep (or in "morning mode" which is about the same thing :-))
12:26 < soffi> hehehe "morning mode" :P
12:26 < jonmason> my "morning mode" runs all day
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12:28 < mael> MarkWilliamson:  yep
12:28 < mael> yeah I noticed you had a different timezone than your fellow xen workers :)
12:29 < soffi> morningmode.com
12:29 < knewt> i think i'm mostly in the same timezone as Mark as well *g*
12:30 < mael> btw MarkWilliamson have you seen my question about qemu?
12:30 < mael> knewt:  lol
12:31 < knewt> although if i was to actually find a job then things would change
12:31 < murble> knewt: I thought you were in CEST?
12:31 < knewt> i am ;)
12:32 < mael> knewt:  you're not working? I thought you were postdoc in germany 
12:32 < knewt> nope. unforseen personal circumstances led to me dropping out of my final year at uni
12:33 < mael> mmh too bad
12:33 < knewt> been out here crashing at my dad's ever since, not managing to get a job
12:33 < mael> where do you live?
12:33 < knewt> hamburg
12:34 < mael> well I guess you can find a job there
12:34 < mael> it's a pretty big town
12:34 < knewt> difficult, as don't speak german
12:34 < murble> knewt: find an irish bar.
12:34 < murble> get work, learn german.
12:34 < mael> knewt:  hell I thought you were german
12:34 < mael> and I was impressed by your english!
12:35 < knewt> heh. nope, english all the way
12:35 < mael> hehe I understand now :)
12:36 < mael> murble's idea is a good one though
12:36 < mael> well time for me to go
12:36 < MarkWilliamson> mael: arrrg!
12:36 < MarkWilliamson> have i missed you?
12:36 < mael> ok 15sec then :)
12:36 < MarkWilliamson> ok, what was the question again?  (scrolls back...)
12:37 < mael> you have enough time to say "yes" or "no" :)
12:37 < MarkWilliamson> ah right.  i've had a Xen system running but haven't tried it with kqemu
12:37 < mael> ok
12:37 < MarkWilliamson> No I haven't tried, yes I'd expect it to Just Work.
12:37 < mael> my attempts crash with kqemu/qemu 0.7
12:37 < mael> I will try without kqemu tomorrow :)
12:37 < MarkWilliamson> crash the Qemu or the whole machine?
12:38 < mael> kernel panic on dom0
12:38 < murble> MarkWilliamson: well the demo CD didn't work the last time i tried it.
12:38 < MarkWilliamson> yeah, must be a difference... there are a few things that work better under kqemu and it seems some things that don't
12:38 < MarkWilliamson> murble: that's true - didn't work for me either
12:38 < MarkWilliamson> hmmm.  maybe it doesn't work anymore!
12:38 < murble> but i had xenlinux working in qemu *ages* ago.
12:39 < MarkWilliamson> The old demoCD worked
12:39 < MarkWilliamson> and I dropped Xen 2.0 onto it, and that worked.
12:39 < MarkWilliamson> So something weird must have happened since...
12:39 < mael> well there it's complaining about bad data from psmouse.c and crash afterwards
12:40 < mael> (hotplug system)
12:40 < mael> GPF PREEMPT 
12:40 < MarkWilliamson> mael: icky!
12:40 < mael> well time for me to leave, a friend is waiting outdoor :)
12:40 < MarkWilliamson> try it without KQemu, I guess
12:40 < MarkWilliamson> OK, see you later.
12:41 < mael> yeah I'll try tomorrow and will post here
12:41 < mael> bye!
12:46 < MarkWilliamson> knewt: Xen is on the front cover of Linux Format in the UK
12:49 < knewt> cool
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12:50 < MarkWilliamson> the funny thing was a quote about XenSource saying commercial support was important because people wouldn't otherwise stay up at 2am and fix your problems :-)
12:51 < knewt> ah, but 2am in which part of the world
12:51 < MarkWilliamson> :-D
12:52 < MarkWilliamson> I think we cover most of it right now - Ian and Keir are "morning people"
12:52 < knewt> morning is a disgusting time of the day
12:53 < MarkWilliamson> i totally agree
12:54 < MarkWilliamson> well it's nice to look at sometimes, and i suppose it's good that it's there in general terms
12:54 < MarkWilliamson> i just like not to have anything to do with it.  a bit like walruses really.
12:55 < knewt> eeeeeek. [[ £18,075 - £19,963 including London allowance ]]
12:55 < knewt> how could anyone /live/ on that in london?????
12:56 < grifferz> with great difficulty and in a shoebox
12:56 < grifferz> rented shoebox that is
12:56 < MarkWilliamson> knewt: that's a bit scary!  sounds like it involves commuting...
12:57 < MarkWilliamson> from somewhere more sane
12:58 < knewt> said job is for a [[ Junior Workstation Support Officer ]]
12:59 < MarkWilliamson> too bad IT positions aren't as well paid as they used to be :-(
13:03 < grifferz> well that IS a very junior role by the sounds of it
13:03 < grifferz> perhaps they are looking for someone right out of college
13:04 < knewt> admittedly, yes, very junior
13:04 < knewt> [[ You will make regular scheduled visits to our student IT cluster rooms, to investigate and resolve problems, and ensure that the rooms are tidy and in good working order. You will use our call logging system to record and track faults, and provide regular reports. You will also assist in delivery, distribution, cleaning and inventory of equipment (this will involve some heavy lifting). ]]
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14:09 < knewt> hmm. any special reason the bitkeeper bot is sending stuff out with the date of the changeset rather than the date of the message?
14:10 < riel> that's how the script works ;)
14:10 < riel> same script as was used for the kernel
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14:18 < katzj> riel: so are your glasses half empty?
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14:19 < riel> katzj: the optrician thought so ;)
14:20  * riel will be getting those fancy glasses that turn into sunglasses when exposed to UV
14:21 < riel> that'll be great for hiking and climbing
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15:32 < jonmason> is anyone running routing instead of bridging?
15:39 < murble> nope. i read the script, and i was wondering why they turn on proxy arp.
15:43 < jonmason> if all that is required is modifing /etc/xen/xend-config.sxp then it doesn't work
15:43 < jonmason> my vif won't even ping to domU
15:44 < jonmason> bridging works great, though
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15:51 < soffi> hola senjores y senjoritas
15:52 < aliguori> hey soffi
15:53 < soffi> whats up
15:54 < aliguori> not much, xen-unstable seems to be a bit hosed right now
15:54 < aliguori> getting a panic before dom0 even starts
15:54 < jonmason> guess I shouldn't upgrade then
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15:55 < soffi> I've got to get some iron so I can test during the day
15:55 < aliguori> jonmason: i'm on a t41.. it may be hardware specific
15:56 < jonmason> aliguori: panic is much worse than routing not working
15:56 < aliguori> yeah, the stack trace is a little funky too
15:57  * knewt runs a combination of bridging and routing (but from the xen side of things it's just bridging)
16:02 < soffi> only 3 weeks until I get off this godforsaken island
16:03 < hollis> England? ;)
16:04 < jonmason> knewt: are you using routing for dom0?
16:04 < soffi> hehe 
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16:12 < knewt> jonmason: on my dom0 i connect all the domUs onto a bridge, but the bridge isn't connected to any physical network card. instead, all the domUs are on 1 subnet, and the bridge has an IP address on that subnet. the physical network card has an IP address on another subnet, and I have routing enabled
16:13 < jonmason> ah
16:14 < knewt> i basically treat each of my dom0s as a router
16:14 < knewt> each dom0 routing across into a different subnet
16:15 < knewt> if i wanted to (haven't so far), i could also set up multiple bridges on a single dom0, each running on a different subnet
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16:19 < demon> I hacked xen so that I can set up a bridge between a tagged VLAN and a domU's network endpoint
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16:19 < demon> so individual domains can be on isolated VLANs
16:20 < jonmason> yeah, I've been wanting to look into VLANs on Xen
16:20 < knewt> all i did for my setup was copy /bin/true into /etc/xen/scripts, change xend-config.sxp to point to that for network-script, and configure my xen-br0 in /etc/network/interfaces
16:22 < jonmason> knewt: "copy /bin/true into /etc/xen/scripts"????
16:23 < demon> maybe you mean symlink it?
16:25 < knewt> hard-linked it actually it seems
16:26 < jonmason> to what end?
16:26 < knewt> probably just forgot to include the -s
16:27 < demon> so that when /etc/init.d/xend is invoked, and it tries to do its "network setup", nothing happens
16:28 < knewt> exactly, and by having something there for it to run it doesn't complain
16:28 < demon> if you're not doing the standard bridge config, I find that's the best thing you can do
16:28 < jonmason> ln -sf /etc/xen/scripts/network /bin/true?????
16:28 < knewt> doesn't stop things working if you point it at something non-existant, but it leaves an error in the log, and i don't like that
16:28 < knewt> jonmason: other way around
16:28 < jonmason> ah
16:29 < demon> yep
16:29 < jonmason> sorry, my mind is somewhere else
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16:31 < knewt> since i don't want my eth0 added to xen-br0, and i like the debian/ubuntu bridge management stuff anyway, i just stop xend from doing any "network setup" work
16:31 < jonmason> did you setup iptables yourself?
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16:33 < knewt> no iptables on the dom0s at all right now, as i control all of the domUs, and i have a firewall configured on my external router
16:34 < knewt> (which isn't actually connected to the net, but to the rest of the house, where there's then /another/ router that does that job)
16:36 < demon> hehe
16:40 < jonmason> alright, it turns out I broke a script :(
16:40 < jonmason> knewt: thanks for the ideas
16:42 < knewt> hehe, now /what/ a surprise. # [[ CherryOS Drama Ends, Product Retired --- The drawn out saga between Macintosh emulator CherryOS and PearPC has come to an end, with CherryOS developer Arben Kryeziu announcing in his Web log that he has shut down the project. ]]
16:43 < demon> hehe
16:43 < demon> rather than be publicly humiliated because he stole the PearPC code, he decided to (at long last) bow out...
16:43 < demon> took him long enough
16:43 < knewt> [[ The news follows Kryeziu's claims in April that he would open up the source code of CherryOS to prove it was not stolen from PearPC. ]]
16:44 < demon> hahah
16:44 < knewt> [[ But it may not be the last Maui-X-Stream hears from the open source community. The attention CherryOS brought caused some code sleuths to also uncover potentially stolen source code in the company's streaming video codecs - where Maui-X-Stream primarily makes its business. ]]
16:45 < demon> url?
16:47 < knewt> http://www.betanews.com/article/CherryOS_Drama_Ends_Product_Retired/1115656418
16:49 < demon> hehe, nice
16:50 < knewt> were you online when googles dns got b0rked this weekend?
16:50 < demon> me? I was asleep most of the weekend... I just heard a little about it after the fact
16:51 < murble> knewt: due to 2 bits being wrong?
16:51 < knewt> within minutes of it happening we'd figured out what was going on and most people i know had 1 or more host file entries set up pointing to a working IP address
16:52 < knewt> murble: www.google.com accidentally CNAMEd to www.l.google.com which was NXDOMAIN
16:52 < murble> not accidently
16:52 < murble> l.google.com is the loadblanacing whatesit zone for google.
16:52 < knewt> ah, ok
16:53 < knewt> yeah, hadn't noticed that
16:54 < demon> knewt: heh... I just went and dug around in the bridge-utils package on debian... I didn't realize that they'd hacked that functionality into ifupdown that way. that's sweet.
16:54 < knewt> demon: yeah, nice aint it
16:55 < knewt> i've been configuring my bridges that way for a couple of years now
16:56 < demon> heh.. I love debian, but it's amazing how many little things like that I don't know about
16:57 < soffi> pfff debian :)
16:57 < demon> <3 debian
17:04 < knewt> hmm. i wish i had money to spare to donate to PJ
17:10 < jonmason> gentoo!
17:12 < riel> knewt: what happened to PJ ?
17:13 < demon> maureen o'gara's been ragging on her
17:13 < riel> yes, but that's mostly to MOG's detriment
17:13 < riel> I'm not entirely sure how it harms PJ
17:21 < knewt> i just think she's doing such a wonderful job with groklaw, and wish i could show my support with a donation
17:23 < riel> she might need it, there have been too many "suicides" around SCO
17:28 < knewt> MOG really is totally contemptible
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20:07 < MarkW> katzj: *ping*
20:45 < katzj> MarkW: pong
20:45 < MarkW> katzj: hey, how's it going?
20:46 < MarkW> katzj: do you know of anyone looking at using kexec for xen guests?
20:46 < MarkW> Since Ian mentioned it in connection with the bootloader discussion I wondered if any of you guys had looked at it (although I know your loader works differently)
20:50 < katzj> MarkW: my looking ended at the same point I always stop looking at kexec...  the idea of maintaining _another_ userspace is incredibly not appealing to me :-)
20:51 < MarkW> another userspace?
20:51 < MarkW> only for kdump though...?
20:56 < katzj> MarkW: if you're actually going to execute anything other than a kernel, you need some sort of userspace.  an init{rd,ramfs} is quite enough pain for me
20:56 < MarkW> sure, fair enough
20:57 < MarkW> I've (temporarily) got a bit fed up of xenfs, so I've been looking at kexec instead.  It's a bit more tractable than the VFS api...
20:57 < katzj> heh, no doubt.  the vfs is a twisty maze of different functions, all very alike
20:58 < MarkW> that's the best description of it I've yet seen :-)
21:01 < MarkW> i'm somewhat hopeful that kexec in a xen guest can be less evil than all the other kexec implementations
21:01 < MarkW> although I'm not sure what the kexec dudes will think of it...
21:06 < knewt> could you use kexec to reboot dom0 without rebooting the machine?
21:08 < MarkW> knewt: not with the scheme I'm planning
21:09 < MarkW> knewt: i think possibly the sanest way to do that might be to have a kexec implementation in Xen itself
21:09 < MarkW> of course, anything which takes down dom0 is going to make all your domains die
21:10 < knewt> one thing i was wondering about was the possibility of pre-loading a domain with a dom0 image, keeping it's memory allocation at the minimal amount absolutely required, and then when dom0 ends, switch that pre-created domain into place as the new dom0, increase the memory allocation to what's really wanted, and start it running
21:11 < MarkW> knewt: it could be done.
21:12 < MarkW> with the driver domain restart stuff, the guests would recover quite quickly
21:12 < MarkW> so the only code you'd need would be in adding this proto-dom0
21:14 < grifferz> is it normal to see dropped TX packets in ifconfig of a vif in bridged mode?
21:14 < grifferz>           TX packets:592248 errors:0 dropped:6097 overruns:0 carrier:0
21:14 < grifferz> for example
21:15 < MarkW> grifferz: what sort of workload are you running?
21:16 < grifferz> oh they are hardly being used at the moment, I am just playing.  a couple of domains sitting mostly idle, one of them doing light web serving and dns master
21:17 < MarkW> it's not really intended to be normal...  there was some discussion on the mailing list recently about it
21:17 < grifferz> I have not noticed any problems, I just noticed that in ifconfig output
21:17 < MarkW> i think whether loss occurs is a bit workload dependent - maybe you're tickling that
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21:36 < Squink> Anyone have any ideas why a binary-install (2.0.5) wouldnt work properly on a FC2 box? When it reboots it wont come back up without someone selecting a different kernel from the bootloader. Which is problem since I only have remote access...
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21:37 < MarkW> Squink: do you know if there's any output on the screen?
21:37 < MarkW> can you get serial console access?
21:38 < Squink> don't think so
21:38 < Squink> Well, i think i can but it's about $60 p/hour
21:39 < Squink> so no, really ;)
21:39 < Squink> any logs i could check that you can think of?
21:42 < MarkW> would it cost you anything to test boot it with "noreboot" on the Xen command line and get the dude at the hosting place to take a picture of the console or something?
21:43 < MarkW> that'd probably be useful if you can't get a serial line...  otherwise it's going to be a bit fiddlier
21:43 < Squink> I could probably try but it'll definitely cost.. what do you reckon is wrong with it?
21:44 < MarkW> drivers perhaps...  what hardware are you using?
21:45 < Squink> Celeron 2.2 w/ 512 ram. That's the most I know. I've never really needed to check more than that ;)
21:47 < MarkW> You'll need to check what devices your using, quite possible you're missing support for some hardware you've got
21:48 < Squink> hmm. Ok, I'm gonna go with the rebooting route i think. I'm going to have to explain to the tech what to do. What should I ask him for that would be most useful? (since they will no doubt charge me as much as possible)
21:49 < Squink> Since they just decided they're gonna charge me 1 "credit" just to select a different kernel from the bootloader =/
21:49 < Squink> which is a bit cheeky.
21:49 < MarkW> look, before you do that, why don't you have a look at the output of "dmesg" when booting vanilla linux
21:50 < MarkW> and see if that gives you any clues about the devices you've got
21:50 < Squink> well they're going to charge me a credit to do that anyway :)
21:51 < MarkW> Ah, it's still in it's dodgy stuck state right now?
21:51 < Squink> yep
21:51 < MarkW> I see...
21:52 < MarkW> They should have a look at what it's doing.  It may be endlessly rebooting or it may have just hung.
21:52 < MarkW> The first is probably more likely.
21:52 < Squink> they'll charge me for a credit for that anyway =/
21:52 < MarkW> It'd be nice if they could capture a digital camera picture of the output when it crashes (or write it down on something)
21:53 < Squink> Alright. Shall I just get them to reboot it into a vanilla kernel so I can check out dmesg?
21:54 < MarkW> That may be enough.
21:54 < MarkW> It's always difficult remotely debugging this sort of thing.
21:56  * Squink waits patiently for server to be rebooted
21:57 < Squink> tbh, I'm looking forward to seeing this lack of overhead..
21:57 < Squink> UML killed mysql =/
22:01 < MarkW> I've not used UML much
22:01 < MarkW> To be fair, It's cool stuff but it's approach does have issues for heavy usage.
22:02 < Squink> Alright. I have the dmesg.
22:03 < Squink> What am i looking for, or shall i just give you a pastebin url?
22:04 < MarkW> give me the url and i'll have a look over it for you
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22:09 < MarkW> Squink: actually, could you also give me the output of "lspci" and of "cat /proc/interrupts"
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22:15 < Squink> MarkW: pasted in privmsg
22:22  * MarkW scratches his head, looks at listings
22:23 < MarkW> Squink: I don't see any obvious show stoppers
22:24 < Squink> hmm
22:25 < MarkW> it'd be much easier with a dump of the output from Xen, or if you had another machine you could test on
22:26 < Squink> I can do KVM input for 2 credits/2hours
22:28 < MarkW> might be easier
22:28 < Squink> Alright, but it's only worth doing if there's someone here to talk me through exactly what it is im going to be.. doing..
22:29 < MarkW> I can't really do that tonight, as it's 3.20am and I should probably sleep at some stage
22:30 < MarkW> There might be someone else here now / later that could help
22:31 < Squink> lol
22:31 < Squink> well, do you think it'll be immediately obvious?
22:32 < MarkW> It may be.  It's likely that either Xen or Linux will panic and barf out a message saying what upset it.
22:32 < MarkW> So if you can grab that, it may tell you what you need to know.
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23:11 < Squink> right, thanks. I'll get on that if it turns out im free tonight :)
23:23 < MarkW> the sun is rising and telling me to go to bed
23:23 < MarkW> gnight all.
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23:31 < spike723> hello
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--- Log closed Mon May 09 23:59:01 2005