--- Day changed

--- Log opened Sun Aug 21 23:59:02 2005
00:03 < TSCHAK> damn I lost it
00:04 < TSCHAK> where can I find the instructions for building freebsd 5.4 kernel for Xen?
00:19 -!- TSCHAK [~thomas@24-53-91-67.clspco.adelphia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:56 -!- bunoc [~bunoc@lez.mag.keio.ac.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:13 -!- sunny [sunny@opencurve.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:16 -!- sunny [sunny@opencurve.org] has joined #xen
01:20 -!- visik7 [~mierda@host70-140.pool8258.interbusiness.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:36 < Shaun> with xen does it matter what user you create the guests under?
01:37 < chrish01> must be root
01:37 < chrish01> or suid possibly, havent tried
01:37 < Shaun> uhh, i just su'd to a user and started a guest
01:37 < Shaun> it's up and it even created the network device.
01:38 < chrish01> i dont think su'ing to that user is the same as logging in as that user
01:39 < Shaun> i just ssh'd as the user
01:39 < Shaun> in fact...
01:39 < Shaun> i just did a xm console guest for a guest that wasnt even started by this user
01:39 < Shaun> and got console
01:39 < Shaun> that doesnt seam good.
01:39 < chrish01> consoles are wide open dude
01:40 < Shaun> xm is not suid
01:40 < chrish01> you can telnet to them in fact
01:40 < Shaun> chrish01: figured that since they are running on open ports
01:40 < chrish01> you shouldnt have access to xm command as a user, but the xend port is also wide open
01:40 < chrish01> especially if you are on 2.0
01:41 < chrish01> in fact, telnet to localhost 8000 and type ...
01:41 < chrish01> GET /xend/node/ HTTP/1.1
01:41 < chrish01> so yea, its wide open, and i believe thats something to be worked on in 3.0
01:41 < chrish01> your dom0 should have *very* limited access, and of course firewall properly
01:46 < Shaun> ok, so then in xen guests are suppose to be started as root.
01:46 < chrish01> well, just restrict access to the xm command
01:46 < chrish01> but the xend daemon is wiii   iiide open regardless unless you firewall it
02:14 -!- franR [~franr@inextensia.net] has joined #xen
02:29 < aliguori> Shaun: 3.0 is much better about these sort of things
02:30 < aliguori> Shaun: in 3.0, you have to be root to do any xend ops by default
02:30 < chrish01> si the remote connectability removed in 3.0 as well?
02:31 < chrish01> ie: connecting to port 8000
02:31 < aliguori> chrish01: not, but by default, it listens on a domain socket
02:31 < aliguori> chrish01: although it appears the http interface is a bit borked
02:31 < aliguori> I was playing with it last weekend and it was locking up on me
02:32 < chrish01> yea, thought so
02:32 < aliguori> chrish01: a much better remote adminstrative interface is just to use ssh.. the xm list --long command is very useful
02:32 < aliguori> because it spits out sexprs
02:32 < chrish01> yea, thats why ive been writing a bsd licensed ssh api :)
02:33 < aliguori> if you use ssh's master/slave support you can do it quite useful
02:33 < aliguori> chrish01: ah, I wonder if yours is better than mine :-)
02:33 < chrish01> mine's in .net (mono)
02:33 < chrish01> it does everything a openssh client can do
02:33 < aliguori> chrish01: http://hg.codemonkey.ws/xenconsole/?cmd=file;filenode=65af2fd471721965a53f69696411f13d121c336a;file=ssh.py
02:33 < aliguori> ah, mine just wraps openssh
02:33 < chrish01> from plugable authentications and dialogs etc ...
02:33 < aliguori> and is python
02:34 < aliguori> sounds complex
02:34 < chrish01> aye
02:34 < chrish01> lots of tcpdumping :)
02:34 < aliguori> but I was considering doing the same thing myself :-)
02:34 < chrish01> there is one in ruby that is pretty light and nice
02:34 < chrish01> net-ssh
02:36 < aliguori> chrish01: ssh is a good interface for this sort of thing because it offers security and privacy.  I've been trying to convince Ian to ditch the HTTP xend interface completely :-)
02:36 < aliguori> chrish01: the problem Ive been having is that xm (if invoked too quickly) will crap out every once in a while
02:37 < chrish01> hrmm
02:37 < chrish01> well, what i hope to eventually do is write a .net wrapper for libxenctl
02:37 < chrish01> and then use binary remoting
02:37 < aliguori> yeah
02:37 < chrish01> which is done over an ssh channel
02:37 < aliguori> I dunno, libxc is not the most ideal management interface
02:37 < chrish01> then we can work directly with strongly typed objects
02:38 < chrish01> yea, i havent looked at the code yet for that
02:38 < aliguori> we'll eventually get a solid interface with the store
02:38 < chrish01> im trying to hold off until 3.0 is semi release candidate ready
02:38 < aliguori> it's a major goal for 3.1
02:38 < chrish01> the store itself is all in C right?
02:38 < aliguori> yeah, 3.0 is going to be a bitch for a solid interface
02:38 < aliguori> chrish01: yup
02:39 < chrish01> ok good
02:39 < aliguori> chrish01: btw, libxc is gpl so you've gotta be careful making bindings for it
02:39 < chrish01> no problem, they will be GPL as well
02:39 < aliguori> cool
02:39 < chrish01> anything i do related to xen is gpl
02:40 < aliguori> yeah, we've had some issues because of other, non-gpl compatible licenses, like the CPL
02:40 < chrish01> i try to use a BSD licenses for everything, but have given up on xen for anything bug GPL
02:41 < aliguori> I prefer the gpl myself. Id rather lgpl for libraries just because there are open source licenses that aren't gpl compatible because of silly things in the gpl (mostly patent related--which is supposedly going to be fixed in gpl3)
02:41 < chrish01> indeed
02:42 < chrish01> mitx11 is my *i dont care* license
02:42 < chrish01> it seems a bit less restrictive
02:42 < aliguori> I'm actually a bit religious about licenses :-)
02:43 < aliguori> I prefer GPL for everything but libraries
02:44 < chrish01> i totally understand
02:50 < rusty> aliguori: I don't think that the patent compatibility issues are going to be resolved in gpl v3
02:52 < aliguori> rusty: really? that sucks.  I remember reading that it was one of the main things they wanted to address
02:53 < aliguori> I wish the process was a bit more open.. but I can imagine how much crude they're going to get
02:55 < rusty> aliguori: other licenses having patent loopholes isn't exactly a problem for the GPL to solve 8)
02:58 < aliguori> rusty: I thought the problem, specifically, with the cpl was that any patent litigation against the software causes the license to terminate itself (at the start of ligation).  this violates the gpl's non-discrimatory stuff.  this seems like a reasonable thing to do though
02:58 < aliguori> I guess it's a bit less free
02:59 < aliguori> but it seems good to discourage patent ligation
03:16 -!- muli [~muli@alhambra.mulix.org] has quit [Quit: My damn controlling terminal disappeared!]
03:39 -!- Arnald [~Arnald@81-86-116-102.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:46  * rusty reads up on cpl patent clause...
03:53 -!- kmacy [~kmacy@adsl-71-132-193-63.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #xen
04:01 -!- kmacy [~kmacy@adsl-71-132-193-63.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:18 -!- muli [~muli@nesher3.haifa.il.ibm.com] has joined #xen
05:36 -!- weasel [weasel@weasel.noc.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
05:55 -!- lilo [~lilo@lilo.usercloak.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:55 -!- lilo [U2FsdGVkX1@lilo.usercloak.oftc.net] has joined #xen
05:58 -!- chrish01 [~chrish01@c-24-126-25-41.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
06:00 -!- Administrator [~Administr@proxy.du.vdsl.is] has joined #xen
06:09 -!- Hunger [Hunger.hu@Hunger.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:21 -!- Hunger [Hunger.hu@Hunger.hu] has joined #xen
06:22 -!- Administrator [~Administr@proxy.du.vdsl.is] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:24 -!- franR [~franr@inextensia.net] has quit [Quit: Error inopinée -10s, -9, -8...    Unexpected error -10s, -9, -8,... Really ?]
06:40 -!- Administrator [~Administr@proxy.du.vdsl.is] has joined #xen
06:41 -!- Administrator is now known as soffi
06:41 < soffi> whoops
07:12 -!- stephand [~syon@vpn-3.trinhall.cam.ac.uk] has left #xen [Kopete 0.10.2 : http://kopete.kde.org]
07:25 -!- rusty [~rusty@ppp62-95.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Client exiting]
08:08 -!- stephand [~syon@c92.al.cl.cam.ac.uk] has joined #xen
08:23 -!- stephand [~syon@c92.al.cl.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:34 -!- stephand [~syon@c92.al.cl.cam.ac.uk] has joined #xen
08:51 -!- riel is now known as surriel
09:01 -!- weasel [weasel@asteria.debian.or.at] has joined #xen
09:30 -!- robin [~rnorwood@nat-pool-rdu.redhat.com] has joined #xen
09:30 -!- robin is now known as robin_
09:33 -!- robin_ [~rnorwood@nat-pool-rdu.redhat.com] has quit [Quit: ]
09:36 -!- unriel is now known as riel
09:53 -!- robin [~rnorwood@nat-pool-rdu.redhat.com] has joined #xen
09:53 -!- robin is now known as robin_
09:54 -!- Dougie_ [~Doug@shade.idmf.net] has joined #xen
09:57 -!- rharper [~rharper@pixpat.austin.ibm.com] has joined #xen
10:00 -!- robin_ [~rnorwood@nat-pool-rdu.redhat.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:03 -!- dansmith [~danms@bi01p1.co.us.ibm.com] has joined #xen
10:03 -!- robin [~rnorwood@nat-pool-rdu.redhat.com] has joined #xen
10:03 -!- robin is now known as robin_
10:15 -!- robin_ [~rnorwood@nat-pool-rdu.redhat.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
10:16 -!- weaselTM [weasel@asteria.debian.or.at] has joined #xen
10:16 -!- weaselTM [weasel@asteria.debian.or.at] has quit [Quit: ]
10:18 -!- hollis [~hollis@user-0vvde2g.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #xen
10:18 -!- robin [~rnorwood@nat-pool-rdu.redhat.com] has joined #xen
10:19 -!- robin is now known as robin_
10:25 -!- soffi [~Administr@proxy.du.vdsl.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:55 -!- monrad [~monrad@213083190134.sonofon.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:09 -!- schultmc [~schultmc@zealot.progeny.com] has joined #xen
11:19 -!- Basic2EE [~Basic@gatekeeper.real-time.com] has joined #xen
11:21 -!- stephand [~syon@c92.al.cl.cam.ac.uk] has left #xen [Kopete 0.10.2 : http://kopete.kde.org]
11:22 -!- mejlholm [~mejlholm@port79.ds1-abc.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #xen
11:25 -!- niv [~niv@c-67-171-167-143.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #xen
11:27 -!- stephand [~syon@c92.al.cl.cam.ac.uk] has joined #xen
11:32 -!- robin_ [~rnorwood@nat-pool-rdu.redhat.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:34 -!- hollis [~hollis@user-0vvde2g.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: bbs]
11:35 -!- lilo [U2FsdGVkX1@lilo.usercloak.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:39 -!- lilo [U2FsdGVkX1@lilo.usercloak.oftc.net] has joined #xen
11:40 -!- niv [~niv@c-67-171-167-143.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.5/20041217]]
11:48 -!- robin [~rnorwood@nat-pool-rdu.redhat.com] has joined #xen
11:54 -!- hollis [~hollis@pixpat.austin.ibm.com] has joined #xen
12:01 -!- robin [~rnorwood@nat-pool-rdu.redhat.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:08 -!- muli [~muli@nesher3.haifa.il.ibm.com] has quit [Quit: My damn controlling terminal disappeared!]
12:14 -!- JoshTriplett [~JoshTripl@bi01p1.co.us.ibm.com] has joined #xen
12:15 -!- aliguori [~anthony@cpe-70-112-81-91.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:30 -!- aliguori [~anthony@pixpat.austin.ibm.com] has joined #xen
12:38 -!- nextime [~nextime@213-140-6-96.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:34 -!- niv [~niv@c-67-171-167-143.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #xen
14:07 -!- robin [~rnorwood@nat-pool-rdu.redhat.com] has joined #xen
14:07 -!- robin is now known as robin_
14:38 -!- stephand [~syon@c92.al.cl.cam.ac.uk] has left #xen [Kopete 0.10.2 : http://kopete.kde.org]
14:48 -!- khnoppics [~zoid@2002:5062:fa7e:1001::f00] has joined #xen
14:49 -!- khnoppics is now known as hyperion
14:50 -!- Arnald [~Arnald@81-86-116-102.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #xen
14:56 -!- timster [~chatzilla@64-142-81-224.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:56 -!- timster [~chatzilla@64-142-81-224.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #xen
15:02 -!- mccabemt [~mike@ny-lackawannacadent4-1a-a-247.buf.adelphia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:04 -!- hyperion [~zoid@2002:5062:fa7e:1001::f00] has left #xen [Diosgyor! Diosgyor! Diosgyor!]
15:11 -!- yarihm [~yarihm@vpn-global-dhcp1-18.ethz.ch] has joined #xen
15:12 -!- chrish01 [~chrish01@wsip-70-183-17-66.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #xen
15:14 -!- mccabemt [~mike@ny-lackawannacadent4-2c-143.buf.adelphia.net] has joined #xen
15:14 -!- niv [~niv@c-67-171-167-143.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.5/20041217]]
15:14 -!- minemaz [~mine@YahooBB220055148023.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
15:20 -!- monrad [~monrad@213083190134.sonofon.dk] has joined #xen
15:21 < cdub> rharper: sorry, I expect PREEMPT to be broken
15:21 < rharper> cdub: heh, np
15:21 < cdub> rharper: it's the one known bug ;-)
15:21 < rharper> I just duped my x86_32 config as a starting point for x86_64 config 
15:22 < cdub> ahh
15:22 < rharper> cdub: any know I know about it too =)
15:22 < cdub> heh
15:22 < rharper> I hope thats it... hard to test out my hotplug patch when it blows up on me
15:22 < cdub> yeah
15:22 < cdub> i hope so too
15:23  * cdub ponders lunch, bbiab
15:23 < rharper> k
15:24 -!- MarkW [~MarkW@maw48.kings.cam.ac.uk] has left #xen [Kopete 0.10.2 : http://kopete.kde.org]
15:32 -!- muli [~muli@alhambra.mulix.org] has joined #xen
15:52 -!- yarihm [~yarihm@vpn-global-dhcp1-18.ethz.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:57 -!- aliguori [~anthony@pixpat.austin.ibm.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:04 -!- dhendrix [~dhendrix@pcp0011708758pcs.brodwy01.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:16 -!- b2s [~b2s@66.111.53.150] has quit [arion.oftc.net unununium.oftc.net]
16:16 -!- grifferz [andy@laudanum.strugglers.net] has quit [arion.oftc.net unununium.oftc.net]
16:16 -!- wenchien [~wenchien@221-169-69-23.adsl.static.seed.net.tw] has quit [arion.oftc.net unununium.oftc.net]
16:16 -!- surriel [~riel@riel.netop.oftc.net] has quit [arion.oftc.net unununium.oftc.net]
16:16 -!- grifferz [andy@laudanum.strugglers.net] has joined #xen
16:17 -!- surriel [~riel@imladris.surriel.com] has joined #xen
16:17 -!- b2s [~b2s@66.111.53.150] has joined #xen
16:22 -!- albeiro [~albeiro@albeiro.usercloak.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:23 -!- albeiro [~albeiro@graffias.estrefa.pl] has joined #xen
16:43 -!- dhendrix [~dhendrix@pcp0011708758pcs.brodwy01.nm.comcast.net] has joined #xen
17:03 -!- aliguori [~anthony@pixpat.austin.ibm.com] has joined #xen
17:12 -!- MarkW [~MarkW@maw48.kings.cam.ac.uk] has joined #xen
17:12 < MarkW> chrish01: Was it you who was talking about Haiku OS a couple of days ago?
17:13 < MarkW> chrish01: http://www.schmidp.com/index.php?option=com_files&path=/haiku/images/
17:13 < MarkW> chrish01: Has a load of disk images of Haiku installs - boots under QEmu and looks cool (although it doesn't actually *do* very much)
17:13 -!- riel is now known as unriel
17:29 -!- jfisch [~jfisch@bi01p1.co.us.ibm.com] has joined #xen
17:29 -!- jfisch [~jfisch@bi01p1.co.us.ibm.com] has quit [Quit: ]
17:29 -!- jfisch [~jfisch@bi01p1.co.us.ibm.com] has joined #xen
17:30 < chrish01> ah sweet
17:34 < MarkW> chrish01: New release of ReactOS today, also - looks pretty nice
17:34 < MarkW> chrish01: I wonder if the Xen port is still moving along...
17:35  * JoshTriplett wonders if anyone will try porting GNU/Hurd. :)
17:37 < MarkW> JoshTriplett: That'd be entertaining
17:37 < MarkW> JoshTriplett: A microkernel on a microkernel... tasty
17:38 < JoshTriplett> MarkW: For that matter, it would be interesting to see if someone could get standard paravirtualized Xen running under VT Xen. :)
17:39 < MarkW> JoshTriplett: I was thinking about how you'd implement Nested VT
17:39 < MarkW> JoshTriplett: That could be quite entertaining for somebody ;-)
17:40 < JoshTriplett> MarkW: Nested VT would be rather difficult, unless you ran some form of emulated VT.
17:40 < aliguori> MarkW: Xen runs under QEMU so Xen + QEMU/domU/Xen should work
17:40 < JoshTriplett> MarkW: Though it would be quite possible to add VT support to QEMU.
17:41 < MarkW> JoshTriplett: Ah well, you'd have to emulate it in Xen (as you do for priv instructions already)
17:41 < aliguori> JoshTriplett: there's supposedly more info about virtualizing VT in the latest spec
17:41 < MarkW> JoshTriplett: But I think virtualising nested Pacifica could work rather better
17:41 < aliguori> MarkW: pacifica has a fair bit about it
17:41 < aliguori> MarkW: you read my mind :-)
17:43 < MarkW> aliguori: Heh :-)  I think the nested page tables could help a lot for nested virtualisation
17:43 < MarkW> aliguori: the question is whether anyone actually wants to use it!
17:44 < MarkW> (nested virtualisation that is)
17:44 < aliguori> MarkW: oh, I think it'll be a really useful feature.  to run ms hypervisor in xen/xen in ms hypervisor
17:45 < JoshTriplett> MarkW: I can almost imagine uses for nested Xen as well; imagine migrating a whole running instance of Xen.
17:45 < MarkW> aliguori: Yeah, that's true, actually.
17:45 < MarkW> JoshTriplett: Yeah, there are people who'd probably use it.
17:46 < chrish01> MarkW, i spend my life getting *away* from the windows interface :)
17:46 < MarkW> chrish01: :-)
17:46 < JoshTriplett> chrish01: Seconded. :)
17:46 < chrish01> although, that aside. the technology is still cool
17:48  * aliguori is waiting for the lightweight hypervisor designed soley to run other hypervisors
17:48 < aliguori> :-)
17:48 < chrish01> hah
17:48 < aliguori> once all the hypervisors become bloated
17:48 < chrish01> service model virtual computing
17:48 < aliguori> I wonder how many levels of depth we're going to get too..
17:56 < aliguori> hm, I wonder how difficult it would be to port qvm86 to xen
17:56 < chrish01> anyone play with plan9 much. i havent tried that on xen yet
17:57 < JoshTriplett> chrish01: dhendrix has worked with plan9 a lot.
17:57 -!- jfisch [~jfisch@bi01p1.co.us.ibm.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:58 < chrish01> yea, i might check that out tonight
18:02 < MarkW> one day in the distant future, a deeply nested stack of hypervisors will become self-aware
18:02 < MarkW> Then we'll be stuffed.
18:03 < chrish01> heh
18:04 < chrish01> man, if only we had hardware fastpath on x86
18:04 < chrish01> that would be pretty slick for network performance
18:04 < tessier> chrish01: I've been saying that for ages.
18:04 < tessier> Seems like someone could build a PCI-X card that would do that
18:05 < chrish01> indeed
18:05 < MarkW> IBM mainframes have weird hardware for memory-memory copies for networking virtual machines
18:05 < MarkW> With an Infiniband card you can do similar stuff (but more general): guests can DMA (safely) to each other without a context switch.
18:06 < chrish01> wow
18:06 < MarkW> Infiniband lets user processes DMA (safely) to user processes *on another system* without kernel involvement
18:06 < MarkW> But it can (I believe) quite happily "loop back" onto an endpoint on the same system.
18:07 < MarkW> All network data path interaction with dom0 can basically be eliminated.
18:08 < JoshTriplett> MarkW: That also makes it much harder for dom0 to do monitoring and accounting...
18:09 -!- niv [~nivedita@bi01p1.co.us.ibm.com] has joined #xen
18:09 < chrish01> oh, does anyone have resources they could send me on talks they've done?
18:09 < chrish01> im doing a talk on xen in seattle in either october or january for IEEE
18:14 < MarkW> JoshTriplett: True.  I guess whether it's good depends on your use case
18:14 -!- timster [~chatzilla@64-142-81-224.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:15 < MarkW> JoshTriplett: It'll be a huge win for MPI type networking apps
18:15 < JoshTriplett> MarkW: Oh, definitely.
18:15 < JoshTriplett> MarkW: I think it's a big win for most users.
18:15 < MarkW> chrish01: You've seen the webpage stuff?
18:15 < MarkW> JoshTriplett: Yup.
18:15 < chrish01> MarkW, no
18:16 < MarkW> http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/Research/SRG/netos/xen/architecture.html
18:16 -!- stekloff [~stekloff@pool-71-111-126-136.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #xen
18:16 < chrish01> most of the talk will be demos
18:16 < chrish01> i plan to do the quake3 demo in fact =P
18:16 < MarkW> Has the original papers and (possibly more relevant) vairous presentations by Ian
18:16 < MarkW> Nice demo ;-)
18:17 < chrish01> also going to finish off that app to build demo servers and connect via vnc on the web
18:17 < MarkW> If you actually want the .ppt files, I guess you could try mailing him.
18:17 < MarkW> Yeah, that'd be well cool!
18:17 < chrish01> pdf is fine
18:17 < aliguori> chrish01: connect via vnc on the web?
18:17 < aliguori> what app is this?
18:17 < chrish01> aliguori, there is a java vnc client
18:18 -!- timster [~chatzilla@64-142-81-224.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #xen
18:18 < chrish01> so you will subscribe to a new domain on the web, and it will build it and connect you via a java vnc client
18:18 < aliguori> yessir, are you working on something to automagically configure distros to do reverse Xvnc?
18:18 < chrish01> im writing it for our salesman to demo our medical software securely
18:18 < aliguori> cause that would rokc :-)
18:18 < MarkW> chrish01: OK, you might find it useful to look through there then, there's quite a lot up there now.
18:18 < aliguori> ahh
18:23 -!- ronpoz [~ronpoz@ool-45700306.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #xen
18:29 < niv> anyone know what the current situation on the mercurial client version issue is?
18:30 < MarkW> niv: hg 0.6c barfs on local repos created with 0.6b
18:30 < niv> ok, so back to 0.5x?
18:30 < MarkW> niv: Network operations between the two is (I think) OK
18:30 < MarkW> niv: And there's a workaround for migrating an on-disk repo from 0.6b to 0.6c
18:30 < chrish01> MarkW, Ian's 2005 ottowa paper is ppt already. thanks for the tip
18:30 < MarkW> chrish01: No prob
18:31 < niv> MarkW: thanks. what's the workaround
18:31 < MarkW> niv: I'm going to just 0.6c and convert my repositories.  (It's a semi-deliberate breakage, so there won't necessarily be a bugfix)
18:32 < niv> MarkW: ok - so if you have all 0.6c you should be ok?
18:32 < MarkW> niv: You only get a problem if you use the on-disk structures of 0.6b (or earlier) with 0.6c
18:33 < niv> ah, ok.
18:33 < MarkW> Here comes the science: http://www.selenic.com/pipermail/mercurial/2005-August/003539.html
18:33 < MarkW> (includes workaround and explanation)
18:34 < niv> MarkW: ah, thnks, should have checked myself, of course :)
18:34 < MarkW> I'm subscribed, so I saw it fly past rather recently
18:34 < MarkW> It took surprisingly long for people to start complaining to Matt ;-)
18:35 < aliguori> MarkW: yeah, I was trying to decide whether to complain over the weekend.. I wasn't sure if it was just me being stupid though
18:37 -!- hollis [~hollis@pixpat.austin.ibm.com] has quit [Quit: leaving]
18:37 < MarkW> aliguori: I did note there was something funny going on before the release but wasn't sure what the cause was.
18:38 < MarkW> It's comforting that it's not an accidental bug though - hg has been pretty solid wrt to that kind of thing.
18:41 < aliguori> yeah, exactly
18:44 < dhendrix> chrish01:  ping?
18:44 < chrish01> dhendrix, hey, curious about running plan9 on xen
18:45 < chrish01> dhendrix, any words of wisdon, urls you could point me to?
18:46 < dhendrix> chrish01:  Not just yet. Actually, I have not run Xen with Plan9 yet. Give me a couple weeks, we're going to start an open 9grid service at school and hopefully I'll have more info by then.
18:46 < chrish01> very cool. i can have patiences :)
18:46 < dhendrix> chrish01:  In the meantime, I suggest going to #plan9 on Freenode. Ron minnich is the guy who did the Plan9 port for Xen, if you find him he'll be able to answer all your questions.
18:46 < chrish01> err patience*
18:46 < chrish01> cool
18:56 < demon> does the newer sparse code for the 2.6 XenoLinux support virtual "whole disk" devices properly these days, so you can have a real partition table and everything?
18:56 -!- niv [~nivedita@bi01p1.co.us.ibm.com] has quit [Quit: Quitting]
18:57 < chrish01> i would think you could do that with block forwarding right?
19:02 -!- aliguori [~anthony@pixpat.austin.ibm.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:17 -!- schultmc [~schultmc@zealot.progeny.com] has quit [Quit: Client exiting]
19:29 < MarkW> demon: I think it's meant to work
19:30 < MarkW> demon: There was no hard technical reason for it being broken, it just didn't get noticed for a while.
19:36 -!- rharper [~rharper@pixpat.austin.ibm.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:36 -!- kmacy [~kmacy@adsl-71-132-193-63.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #xen
19:37 -!- ronpoz [~ronpoz@ool-45700306.dyn.optonline.net] has left #xen []
19:37 -!- rusty [~rusty@ppp62-95.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #xen
19:40 -!- ronpoz [~ronpoz@ool-45700306.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #xen
19:56 -!- dansmith [~danms@bi01p1.co.us.ibm.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:56 -!- rusty [~rusty@ppp62-95.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:12 < demon> yeah, I ask because I know it was broked awhile back
20:13 < MarkW> demon: I think it *should* be fixed but wouldn't swear to it.
20:15 < demon> hm... guess I'll have to play with it on one of my boxes then
20:16 -!- stekloff [~stekloff@pool-71-111-126-136.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:16 < kmacy> MarkW: how goes it?
20:16 < MarkW> kmacy: Not bad.
20:16 < kmacy> I'm finally getting back to working on xen again
20:16 < MarkW> kmacy: Haven't seen you on here for a while - wassup?
20:17 < kmacy> I moved and then I didn't have network and then I didn't have any equipment ...
20:17 < MarkW> Ah, OK
20:17 < kmacy> so I just read and did other stuff
20:17 < MarkW> Cool
20:18 < kmacy> I've got my desktop running 6.0 now and I've got a 4 core Opteron netbooting Centos 4.1 w/ xen 3.0
20:18 < kmacy> FreeBSD 6.0
20:18 < kmacy> I'm working on getting 5.3 working again on the latest from -unstable
20:19 < kmacy> MarkW: what are you working on?
20:20 -!- chrish01 [~chrish01@wsip-70-183-17-66.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:20 < MarkW> kmacy: I just brought the XenFS code up to the latest unstable and finally blew away the BK repository
20:20 < MarkW> Now I'm making it understand Xenbus
20:21 < kmacy> cool
20:21 < MarkW> Now you too can enjoy converting to Xenbus :-)
20:21 < kmacy> yes
20:21 < kmacy> fun fun fun
20:23 < MarkW> what are the prospects looking like for Xen support in Fbsd 6?
20:23 -!- Basic2EE [~Basic@gatekeeper.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:23 < kmacy> heh heh
20:23 < kmacy> Well domU support would almost certainly already be in if I hadn't jumped ship
20:23 -!- ronpoz [~ronpoz@ool-45700306.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com]
20:24 -!- ronpoz [~ronpoz@ool-45700306.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #xen
20:24 < kmacy> I'm more interested in 6 than in 5, but I know that 5.3 was working at one point so that is the smartest point to approach from
20:24 < kmacy> once I've got that working I'll know what has changed, then I can get back to working on 6
20:24 < MarkW> Yup, makes good sense.
20:25 < kmacy> I'm actually really interested in getting DOM0 support working
20:25 < kmacy> but one thing at a time
20:26 < MarkW> Yes, do away with this nasty lunix thing :-)
20:26 < kmacy> bingo :-)
20:27 < kmacy> After working on the linux side and seeing how knowledge about VM structure is strewn throughout the code
20:27 < kmacy> blech
20:28 < kmacy> what has memory_t become now?
20:28 < JoshTriplett> kmacy: Dead.
20:28 < MarkW> I thought there were still some instances?
20:28 < JoshTriplett> kmacy: "unsigned long" AFAIK.
20:28 < MarkW> Maybe not... anyhow it seems to be unsigned long
20:28 < kmacy> ok
20:29 < MarkW> JoshTriplett: Yup :-)
20:29 < JoshTriplett> MarkW: If there are some, they should be removed.
20:29 < kmacy> I know its gone
20:29 < kmacy> as the code doesn't compile
20:29 < MarkW> Ahhh
20:32 < kmacy> of course IPI binding API has changed
20:35 < MarkW> kmacy: Eh?
20:35 < kmacy> evtchn.c
20:35 < MarkW> kmacy: What's changed?
20:36 < kmacy> just how cpu binding is structured
20:36 < MarkW> My driver code wasn't effected
20:37 < kmacy> this is in the actual setup
20:37 < MarkW> But I remember that change going in actually
20:37 < MarkW> Didn't understand it though :-)
20:37 < kmacy> you'd have to do a port to care
20:37 < kmacy> :-^
20:44 -!- newsham [{6yoc755Ne@malasada.lava.net] has joined #xen
20:44 < newsham> hi
20:44 < newsham> question: when I receive an event or failsafe callback, is that delivered like cpu traps?  (ie. will the stack have a trapframe on it?)
20:45 < kmacy> you create the trapframe
20:45 < newsham> what is the mechanism that calls my callback function?
20:45 < kmacy> it is handled much like an trap or interrupt
20:46 < newsham> with a trap instruction?  lcall?
20:46 < kmacy> see exception.s
20:46 < newsham> no exception.s under xen-unstable.hg/xen
20:46 < kmacy> I'm talking about in the guest
20:47 < kmacy> you mean where does xen call it from?
20:47 < newsham> the guest doesnt do the calling of the callback though :)
20:47 < kmacy> I thought you were trying to ask how it is handled
20:47 < newsham> I'm interested in what the actual mechanism is (or more specifically, I'm wondering what the stack looks like when my handler gets called)
20:48 < kmacy> xen-unstable.hg/xen/arch/x86/x86_32/entry.S explains it pretty well
20:48 < newsham> danke
20:48 < kmacy> keine ursache
20:55 < kmacy> newsham: what other OSS security stuff have you been involved in other than Wi-Fi
20:55 < kmacy> ?
20:56 < newsham> I've been doing security most my life.  Most of its not open source.  some stuff has been released with source code (like wlan stuff, and casl for example)
20:57 < newsham> there have been soem contracts with companies who sell open source software, but I dont know if I can say who.
20:57 < kmacy> Well you said it was your job so I naturally assumed that most of it wasn't OSS
20:57 < kmacy> That's fine
20:57 < newsham> off the top of my head the wlan stuff I released for free and casl are the only things that come to mind
20:57 < kmacy> I just saw your name in "Hacking Exposed" and you popped in
20:57 < kmacy> so I thought I'd ask
20:58 < newsham> ahh..  didnt know I was mentioned in that book.
20:58 < kmacy> It is hard finding security books that are targeted at people with any level of sophistication
20:58 -!- jfisch [~jfisch@bi01p1.co.us.ibm.com] has joined #xen
20:59 < kmacy> they've all got programming and OS tutorials interleaved
20:59 < newsham> if you want a good low-level technical security book there's the shellcoder's handbook
20:59 < newsham> I think microsoft press's writing secure code is fairly good, but more from a preventive than attack point of view
20:59 < kmacy> right
21:00 < kmacy> "Forensic Discovery" is good for post-attack
21:00 < kmacy> "Virus Research and Defense" provides pretty good coverage all things considered
21:00 < newsham> I dont read many books myself so I cant give many other recommendations :\
21:00 < kmacy> Yeah well, I don't have years to come up to speed
21:01 < jfisch> MarkW: Are you there?
21:01 < newsham> I'm not trying to put down the books.  just letting you know my ignorance.
21:04 < MarkW> jfisch: yup
21:07 < jfisch> MarkW: Howdy, Josh is helping me to understand etiquette since this is my first time
21:08 < jfisch> MarkW: Just wondering if you received my email from the other day about the patch for adding the ability to retreive the xen version
21:08 < MarkW> ooh...
21:08 < MarkW> jfisch: Sorry, I missed that one.
21:08 < MarkW> jfisch: I'll apply it now.
21:08 < jfisch> I know with the floods of mail its easy to miss
21:09 < jfisch> I can't even keep up with it all
21:09 < jfisch> No problem, guess thats why these chat rooms are useful :)
21:11 < MarkW> jfisch: Now pushed it, sorry about the delay.
21:11 < MarkW> jfisch: You another intern?
21:11 < jfisch> MarkW: Yes I'm an intern from PSU also
21:12 < jfisch> MarkW: I'm a graduate student there
21:12 < MarkW> jfisch: Cool
21:12 < jfisch> MarkW: going for my MS 
21:12 < jfisch> MarkW: will be done this year and then continuing for PhD next year
21:12 < MarkW> jfisch: Neat.  How long are you going to be at IBM?
21:13 < jfisch> MarkW: Well, I was supposed to be here until end Sept
21:13 < jfisch> MarkW: but an opportunity came up for me to do research with a prof 
21:13 < jfisch> MarkW: that I know, so this Friday will also be my last day just like Josh
21:13 < JoshTriplett> MarkW: Interesting; the web interface at http://xenbits.xensource.com/maw/xen-xenstat.hg says you pushed it 61 minutes ago. :)  Seems to be about 60 minutes off.
21:14 < jfisch> MarkW: Josh and I have enumerated what we like to cram in before we leave
21:15 < jfisch> MarkW: Want to add support for different formats like top and batch mode
21:15 < jfisch> MarkW: And also get in support for VBDs
21:15 < MarkW> JoshTriplett: Maybe xenbits is set to some weird timezone
21:15 < MarkW> jfisch: Doing what with VBDs?
21:15 < JoshTriplett> MarkW: Tracking statistics.
21:15 < MarkW> Such as?
21:16 < JoshTriplett> MarkW: Reads & writes by each domain.
21:16 < JoshTriplett> MarkW: Number of bytes/blocks transferred.
21:16 < MarkW> OK
21:17 < JoshTriplett> MarkW: Eventually we'd like to correlate that to physical devices as well, just as we'd like to correlate VCPUs to CPUs.
21:17 < JoshTriplett> MarkW: But that one probably won't happen while we're here.
21:17 < jfisch> MarkW: Its been really fun working on all of this during the summer
21:17 < MarkW> JoshTriplett: Sounds good.  But yes, it is a lot to do.
21:18 < jfisch> MarkW: I'm so glad you've helped us so we can continue to contribute when our internship is up.
21:19 < MarkW> jfisch: Glad to hear you've enjoyed it!
21:19 < jfisch> MarkW: Yes immensely, its been very exciting.
21:20 < MarkW> jfisch: If you're ever in the area you should drop in at Cambridge
21:20 < jfisch> MarkW: Thank you for the invitation, I definitely will, I love Europe
21:21 < jfisch> MarkW: Actually I look forward to travelling all around after I get my PhD
21:21 < MarkW> jfisch: How long does that usually take at your place?
21:21 < jfisch> MarkW: I will go to a different school than PSU but don't where yet
21:22 < MarkW> Also, if any of you guys are going to any systems conferences, you could mail me to see if I'm there; it's good to have people you know.
21:22 < MarkW> jfisch: Ah, so you could come to cambridge ;-)
21:23 -!- chrish01 [~chrish01@c-24-126-25-41.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #xen
21:23 < MarkW> jfisch: When do you have to sort it out by?  Choosing PhD programs is always hard work.
21:23 < jfisch> MarkW: It varies, of course if you know who you want to study with and exactly what you want to do then it could be fast probably could be 2 years
21:24 < JoshTriplett> MarkW: Thanks; I keep meaning to work on a couple of papers for the Freenix track at USENIX, as well as a couple of others.
21:24 < jfisch> MarkW: Have to sort it all out by this December 
21:24 < JoshTriplett> MarkW: I'll definitely drop you a note.
21:24  * JoshTriplett also keeps hoping that the next DebConf will happen in the westerly portions of the US. :)
21:25 < jfisch> MarkW: I know PhD programs are hard work, but when you're passionate about what you are doing thats what keeps you going!
21:25 < MarkW> jfisch: For instance, Cambridge actually withdrew my offer on the grounds of no funding, a month after I'd started.  I explained to them that actually I was here already :-)
21:25 < MarkW> jfisch: Have you seen www.phdcomics.com?  It's quite a good representation of PhD life!
21:26 < JoshTriplett> MarkW: Heh; yeah, I've read that a few times. :)
21:26 < MarkW> JoshTriplett: Cool.  I was thinking about doing a paper for freenix also.
21:26 < jfisch> MarkW: No, I'll take a look they have pretty amusing stories huh?
21:26 < MarkW> JoshTriplett: I'd like to write up the USB virtualisation stuff at some point and that seems like a good place to do it.
21:27 < MarkW> jfisch: I started reading it over a year ago, going "Ha ha, that's funny" every so often.  Then I started to think "Hang on someone's made a comic strip of my life" and then "All grad students must have the same life..." :-D
21:27 < MarkW> jfisch: It is *very* close to the truth at times!
21:28 < JoshTriplett> MarkW: Kinda like Dilbert for grad students; it's even funnier because it's eerily accurate sometimes. :)
21:28 < jfisch> MarkW: Hmmm but then I would think it becomes less funny as time goes on?
21:28 < JoshTriplett> MarkW: The USB virtualization stuff seems quite interesting, particularly given that you can hook up almost anything via USB.
21:28 < MarkW> jfisch: Not really, they keep finding new angles on things.  The guy who does it is actually pretty talented.
21:28 < newsham> phd virtualization
21:29 < MarkW> newsham: multiplexing multiple virtual phds on one real phd?  sounds too much work!
21:29 < MarkW> newsham: maybe when I get a second brain and it's underutilised... wait, my first brain is underutilised.
21:29 < newsham> start a comic strip :)
21:29 < jfisch> :))
21:30 < JoshTriplett> newsham: Would PhD virtualization be when several people get a PhD but only one is doing the work? :)
21:30 < MarkW> jfisch: Plus it's a comic strip that's like my life, so it has to be interesting, right? ;-)
21:31 < MarkW> JoshTriplett: ^ Indeed! One idea someone mentioned was to hook emulated devices to the virtual USB hub, as a *replacement* for the network and block front/back
21:31 < jfisch> MarkW: Yes sounds like it.  How can anyone's life who is working on Xen not be interesting? :)
21:31 < MarkW> JoshTriplett: I was looking at the Virtual PC USB virtualisation stuff a couple of days ago and going "Ooooh, mine can do that, mine can do that too!"
21:31 < JoshTriplett> MarkW: Sounds like a good idea.  USB is straightforward enough that it might be a useful "generic Xen bus".
21:31 < newsham> how about the 9P protocol as a generic xen bus?
21:32 < JoshTriplett> newsham: How about the 9P protocol as a generic Xen? :)
21:32 < MarkW> jfisch: Yes, although if I had an effective concentration span I'm sure I could spend less time working.
21:33 < MarkW> JoshTriplett: It's not particularly straightforward ;-)
21:33 < newsham> 9P already has mechanisms beign designed into xenbus.
21:33 < jfisch> MarkW: But its better that way, you discover things others don't! At least thats what happens when my concentration span isn't there.
21:33 < JoshTriplett> MarkW: For a hardware bus anyway. :)
21:33 < MarkW> jfisch: As long as I have the willpower not to surf the internet!
21:33 < JoshTriplett> MarkW: Or rather, most of the complexity doesn't need to be duplicated.
21:34 < JoshTriplett> MarkW: See you around.
21:34 -!- JoshTriplett [~JoshTripl@bi01p1.co.us.ibm.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:34 < jfisch> MarkW: I'm still here though
21:34 < MarkW> jfisch: Good to know I've not been abandoned!
21:36 < jfisch> MarkW: So have you travelled to the US?
21:38 < MarkW> jfisch: Not for ages...  Went there on holiday with my parents years ago.
21:38 < MarkW> jfisch: I was in Canada recently for OLS
21:39 < jfisch> MarkW: Canada is really nice, was in Ottawa once but not for OLS
21:39 < jfisch> MarkW: Maybe next year
21:39 < MarkW> jfisch: I liked it.  I'd like to go again next year
21:40 < MarkW> jfisch: Hopefully I can get myself sent to the US at some point too.
21:42 < jfisch> MarkW: That would be good, we had a french teacher stay with us last year she would get tickets cheaper from buying them through a French website rather than through the US ones. Pretty interesting. Wonder if that applies everywhere. Except you'd need to know the language of the country you're travelling to.
21:43 < MarkW> jfisch: I didn't know you could do that trick - interesting!  I guess you wouldn't want to use Babelfish on something before typing in your credit card number!!!
21:45 < jfisch> MarkW: Yes I suppose you could mess up.
21:46 < MarkW> jfisch: You'd have to be a bit brave, I'd say
21:46 < MarkW> jfisch: Mistranslations could have some interesting consequences!
21:47 < jfisch> MarkW: Well being brave and making mistakes causes one to learn
21:48 < MarkW> jfisch: True
21:49 < jfisch> MarkW: But I do remember Virginie was her name, that she thought it was funny sometimes because her students would mispronounce some words to the point they were saying bad curse words and not realizing it. 
21:49 < jfisch> MarkW: She would try to teach them the correct pronounciation but just they just wouldn't get it.
21:50 -!- chrish01 is now known as chris|out
21:50 < MarkW> jfisch: A french friend of mine was trying to teach me to say "Renault" properly.  I couldn't do it, apparently.
21:50 < jfisch> MarkW: Well I probably should get back to work, be nice to chat with you again sometime I can send you my email at school
21:51 < MarkW> jfisch: Sorry for distracting you!  (you working late?)
21:51 < jfisch> MarkW: Yeah you don't pronounce the "t" on the end
21:51 < MarkW> jfisch: Yes, send me your school e-mail address when you get a chance.  I'm also on just about every IM network known to man ;-)
21:52 < jfisch> MarkW: and the R is usually back of the throat sound
21:52 < MarkW> jfisch: It was the R that was the problem - I couldn't do it!
21:52 < jfisch> MarkW: You can get it if you work on it.
21:52 < MarkW> jfisch: Maybe one day :-)
21:53 < jfisch> MarkW: Yeah I'm working late, had an appt to go to today so I came back
21:54 < MarkW> jfisch: OK.  Heh, at the department they have an explicit rule aganst sleeping in the lab
21:54 < MarkW> jfisch: Which is unfriendly of them - they even go so far as to say that unauthorised sleeping people will be "disposed" of (no kidding - their words!)
21:54 < jfisch> MarkW: I will send you my email at school.  It'd be great to stay in touch and continue working on xen stuff.
21:55 < MarkW> jfisch: Cool!  Let me know.
21:55 < MarkW> jfisch: It's always nice to know people at other schools, regardless of whether any work gets done.
21:56 < jfisch> MarkW: Actually its not that late here it is about 7pm, so it is in the middle of the night there for you?
21:56 < jfisch> MarkW: I thought you were about 7 hours ahead of us?
21:56 < MarkW> jfisch: Actually it's 3am.  That's about standard for me though!
21:57 < jfisch> MarkW: Ok I had guessed it was 4am, not too far off
21:57 < jfisch> MarkW: But you're not breaking the rule you're still typing :)
21:57 < jfisch> MarkW: Yes, I agree nice to know people at other schools.
21:58 < MarkW> jfisch: Yep, pretty good guess.  Timezones confuse me mightily.
21:58 < jfisch> MarkW: I wonder if that is on the phdcomic web site about no sleeping allowed in the labs
21:59 < MarkW> jfisch: The "no sleeping" isn't...
21:59 < jfisch> MarkW: I guess I'm a sure fit for graduate school, I have my  days and nights mixed up, I do some of my best work during the night.
21:59 < MarkW> jfisch: but there are plenty of references to not sleeping :-)
22:01 < jfisch> MarkW: I wonder if anyone has ever done a study why that is so, that creative or breakthrough work happens in the middle of the night.
22:02 < MarkW> jfisch: Good question.  I only work at night because I can't get up in the morning, tho ;-)  It's kinda self-reinforcing
22:02 < jfisch> got a phone call
22:02 < jfisch> so i'll have to chat later
22:05 < MarkW> jfisch: OK, see ya!
22:06 < jfisch> MarkW: I'll send you email, talk to you later, it was nice to get to know you.
22:07 < MarkW> jfisch: Cool, nice meeting you too.  Talk to you later
22:09 -!- bytee [~cc@c220-237-62-156.eburwd8.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:10 -!- jfisch [~jfisch@bi01p1.co.us.ibm.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:25 -!- tessier_ [~treed@wsip-68-224-172-77.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:47 -!- ronpoz [~ronpoz@ool-45700306.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com]
22:50 -!- tessier_ [~treed@wsip-68-224-172-77.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #xen
22:50 -!- chris|out is now known as chrish01
23:26 -!- chrish01 [~chrish01@c-24-126-25-41.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
--- Log closed Mon Aug 22 23:59:00 2005