softskills-- No payment per bank transfer very disheartining

Greetings. I am funding a non profit open Education project in China and have tried so hard to open an account, but was notified from the vise president that they are too automated to care.

They will accept credit cards.

They will accept checks and prepaid accounts.

But, they wont accept wired transfers.

I cant understand why. I think for credit cards and checks, they would have to pay a fee? I have offered to pay for an entire year, with 10 % at 650 us dollars. This is a huge amount for me in China. I offered to wire from Hang Seng Bank directly to their account.

I even said I would pay all transfer fees.

My previous server at Esosoft , a great company,…

They donated their server space for 10 years for free. It was a shared server, and my site grew too big for their server.

So they ended their donated spacve on Wednesday. I have a lot of students records online in my drupal database I really need to get to.

There are no prepaid credit cards in China, and I have no credit cards.

So, Linode is very automated corporation who is beyond lending a helping hand.

"Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value." Albert Einstein

30 Replies

I think we've all suspected it for quite some time.

Let's look at their linode:

Key features:

Internet

Linux

Large green Cube

Selling points:

Amazing control panel

No contract

Timely support

Automated backup

Obviously, Linode wants to K.I.L.L. S.A.N.T.A.

hahahahahahaha god all the stess of doing this… Sitting behind my keyboard begging people all around the world for hours… Its good to read this :)

Yeah, because they won't accept your possibly bullshit transfer, they're the grinch. uh-huh, sure, guy.

Why dont you try to explain what the possibility of a "Bullshit" transfer is? I think when you transfer from one bank account to another, without credit cards, or checks; that pretty much cuts out the "Bullshit" factor, doesn't it?

There is :

No processing fee

No chance of forged Check

Senders Name Same as the Name on the Registering account

max three day transfer process

Transfers can not be reversed

Transfers can not be cancelled

Clear transfer number

Now I asked that they open the account while waiting for the money to arrive. That request is maybe above and beyond requiring a leap of faith. If they wanted to turn that down, that is understandable.

They could be kind and say , ok well open it up first… But thats not a necessity.

HOWEVER CONSIDERING ITS FOR A YEAR IN ADVANCE AND THEY COULD WAIT UNTIL THE MONEY TRANSFER WAS COMPLETED, WHERE IS THE "RISK/BULLSHIT"?

Id say transferring between bank accounts is much less full of "Risk/Bullshit" than whatever means of purchase you used.

If I am wrong, please tell me where the "Risk" is.

I expected the customers here to have a higher level of logic than this. Im sure most do.

Actually I made a mistake. There is a processing fee. And a currency conversion fee. I had to deposit like 300hk dollars extra to cover the expense so no money would be deducted on the receivers side. I think that is a higher fee than using a credit card would be. If I had a credit card, I would use it to avoid that additional expense.

@AntiNSA:

Why dont you try to explain what the possibility of a "Bullshit" transfer is?

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consume … lt117.shtm">http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/alerts/alt117.shtm

Replace Nigeria with China and you'll get the general idea.

Not to say that you are trying to scam anyone, but intelligent people on this side of the world are going to be pretty skeptical when you start asking for their bank account numbers.

I'm sorry, but it is broad generalizations like that which make this world a difficult place.

Offering to pay for a complete year of service per bank transfer has nothing to do with the scam which you have linked to. I am not phishing for any information.

In fact I am merely trying to pay for a service.

1) Im offering to do a money transfer from Hang Seng Bank, one of Hong Kongs Largest Banks, from one of the larges financial centers in the world, not a third world location.

2) I am not asking for funds I am sending funds

3) Even if I was using one of China larges banks, China is the worlds second largest economy.

I think that it is misinformed and uneducated statements like this that cause so many problems in todays mainstream media.

I do not want someone reading this thread in the future to associate money transfers from one institution to another with high risk.

Well established financial institutions transferring funds from point to point is the lowest risk you can find.

One must be cautious of people phishing for information and asking for funds, as described in the linked reference.

I hope you are more educated on the matter. Using bank to bank reduces risks and delays from third party involvement. Using credit institutions, and brokers like paypal and moneybookers involves much higher level of risk than bank to bank transactions.

I simply wanted to send funds from point A, to point B. There is nothing in that process which would involve risk for anyone. This isn't an ebay auction. You get the money, you start the paid for service. Thats it. No middle men involved at all.

Additionally, Bank account numbers and names by themselves, generally pose no threat or danger. It is the manipulation of the individual account holders which is dangerous. Just because someone has your name and account number, doesn't mean they can take any money from your bank without it.

You're missing the point - Linode is NOT setup to accept wire transfers.

And just because they don't want to make an exception for your case, they're the bad guys?

Good thing you don't apply that logic to where you're living - otherwise you'd be packing up today. I can't even enumerate the things China won't let me do, or try to accommodate my research lab trips (which we VOLUNTEER to teach THEIR scientists who in all likelihood will steal whatever techniques we show them and never EVER credit us for our work).

Instead of whining at Linode for not taking wire transfers, why are you not bitching at your oh so wonderful bank for not offering pre-paid credit cards - like ALL of the banks in the civilized world does?

u're missing the point - Linode is NOT setup to accept wire transfers.

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What exact set up is required? If you have an accounting having a human check the bank account transfer number should be cheaper than the processing fees from credit card companies.

And just because they don't want to make an exception for your case, they're the bad guys?

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It is an inefficient hurdle to use a third party. Especially when offering prepaid service for one year.

Good thing you don't apply that logic to where you're living - otherwise you'd be packing up today.

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Are you trying to demonize my geographic location to distract from

the argument of efficiency, cost or required effort to process a payment?

I can't even enumerate the things China won't let me do, or try to accommodate my research lab trips

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Im sorry, we are talking about transferring money from point to point. There is no added difficulty by NOT using a third party and transferring directly.

(which we VOLUNTEER to teach THEIR scientists who in all likelihood will steal whatever techniques we show them and never EVER credit us for our work).

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This is way off topic. Im sure that Chinese have never created any technological advances around in the world today? While the developed world has has benefited from the externalized costs of their consumption, without no credit being gave to the Chinese factory worker, whose product was sold multiple times over providing profit to the many different middlemen along the way to its final destination…

Right now you want to complain that you never received credit for your work after so many years of living of the profit made from their underpaid work? If we were going to get into a discussion about this topic I would say that what is the true lesser of two evils now that the tables have been turned?

Instead of whining at Linode for not taking wire transfers, why are you not bitching at your oh so wonderful bank for not offering pre-paid credit cards - like ALL of the banks in the civilized world does?

===========================================

Indeed I did complain about this. However would you call Hong Kong Uncivilized? Have you been to all the Civilized world? Is this a blanket generalization as you have just previously made? Are you saying that all businesses in the civilized world do not accept bank to bank transfers?

Did you think that there was a special application process required in order to enable this feature?

Worth noting: Whining here will not cause Linode to magically reverse their policies and accept your alternate source of payment.

I'm not sure why you feel entitled to have Linode support your payment type. Where I work, we accept Visa and Mastercard, but not American Express. And yet nobody feels the need to whine at me when I tell them they can't use their AmEx. Just because you want to do things your way doesn't mean Linode has to accommodate you.

And please stop playing the "I'm a poor starving humanitarian trying to save the children/rainforest/penguins/etc" card. That may be your end goal, but noble intentions don't allow you to sidestep policy.

Your requests sound in every way like an email scam. You combine the guilt trip from far away lands with the difficulty transferring money and the vague blame-casting on big mean linode.

Worth noting: Whining here will not cause Linode to magically reverse their policies and accept your alternate source of payment.

===================================

Im sorry, customer testimonial… Was this the fall into line and be with us or you are with the terrorist type section? Id like to think of it as constructive criticism.

I'm not sure why you feel entitled to have Linode support your payment type.

====================================

I dont feel "Entitled" to anything in life. However, I think that price is what you pay, and service is what you get. Paying through a middle party, like a credit card company, is actually administrativley more expensive, requiring more additional steps than bank to bank. Why should discussion of efficiency be limited to server configurations?

Bank to bank would not be an added feature, it would not require a middle man.

Where I work, we accept Visa and Mastercard, but not American Express.

============================

Which is in no way related to transferring money bank to bank. All of those credit companies you mentioned are third party middlemen. Bank to bank requires no additional credit processing entity.

And yet nobody feels the need to whine at me when I tell them they can't use their AmEx.

======================================

Not at all related. Credit cards are an "additional" entity to transferring funds which banks dont need, or require. While transferring money, the added administrative burden lays on the sender, rather than the receiver.

Just because you want to do things your way doesn't mean Linode has to accommodate you.

======================================

Obviously. But is that really the ideal model of customer service? Is that the sentence you would like displayed over your main entrance?

And please stop playing the "I'm a poor starving humanitarian trying to save the children/rainforest/penguins/etc" card.

================================

"Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value." Albert Einstein

I'm not playing. I truly believe there is value in enriching humanity, and while some admire "green" servers, I admire many forms of corporate responsibility in all forms.

That may be your end goal, but noble intentions don't allow you to sidestep policy.

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Obviously. Hopefully they will hope to shape it for others who may be in the same situation.

Your requests sound in every way like an email scam.

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It sounds like you are misinformed to what exactly my requests are, and what was required to meet those requests. I would venture to say that you understanding of "Risk" in this process is mis-founded, due to your understanding of the entire process,

For someone who can't figure out how to get a VISA card you sure are arrogant about how little the rest of us understand the banking system.

You are asking Linode to give you an account number and routing code to make a transfer. They have said no. Deal with it.

@Stever:

You are asking Linode to give you an account number and routing code to make a transfer. They have said no. Deal with it.

ISTM he is dealing with it, by lobbying Linode to say yes instead. More or less.

Except he's not lobbying Linode, he's attempting (albeit perhaps unwittingly) to start a flame war by using harsh language and repetition to make it sound like Linode is the evil corporate giant raining on his happiness parade (As evidenced by topic titles which connect a real company with a fictional evil entity who hates happiness).

For someone who can't figure out how to get a VISA card

=====================================

I know exactly how to get a Visa card. It is not feasable for me to get one. All these mislabeled generalizations seem to be popular lately.

you sure are arrogant about how little the rest of us understand the banking system.

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I never mentioned anyone else than the people I was addressing. I never met you or had a conversation with you before, and have no idea about your understanding of the process. Was there anything misleading which I said earlier in my posts? Was there any point in which I labeled any group as a whole?

You are asking Linode to give you an account number and routing code to make a transfer.

=================================

Was there anything risky in that equation? I don't think there is any arrogance in downplaying any misunderstood risk, or false comparisons to Nigerian Phishing scams. Additionally there is no additional set up required. It is simply a method which all banks natively use to transfer funds without third party credit processing companies like Visa.

They have said no. D

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Yep. I am testimony to that..

It is in my opinion , that adding this option would improve my Linode experience, and all others who do not own credit cards. It is a terrible inconvenience in my purchasing experience.

Which is to say I think that the lower class income purchasers are also customers. It would be foolish to lose one who is willing to pay for a year in advance in order to cater to an upper income customer who may only pay month by month, while you have to pay additional processing fees to a third party credit processing company. That just doesnt seem logical.

@AntiNSA:

I know exactly how to get a Visa card. It is not feasable for me to get one
So it's OK for you to use the "it's not feasable (sic) for me" excuse, but when Linode says it's NOT feasible for them to change their accounting practices for you - it's a big freaking deal?

Nothing like playing the double standard card (oh wait you're from China - what am I thinking - never mind).

So it's OK for you to use the "it's not feasable (sic) for me" excuse,

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I am the Customer. It is an entirely different ADDITIONAL process required for me to make the purchase. An additional hurdle. For Linode, it is not additional. In fact it requires less. Less members in the transaction process. Less money for credit processing. There are no additional steps to pay by bank transfer vs. credit payment. Infact it is the reverse which is true.

but when Linode says it's NOT feasible for them to change their accounting practices for you - it's a big freaking deal?

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As a customer in this situation, yes it is a very big inconvenience.

Nothing like playing the double standard card (oh wait you're from China - what am I thinking - never mind).

=======================================

Do you have to finish with yet another demonized generalization?

Are all people from China, like a quarter of the worlds population, those who like playing the ""Double Standard" card?

Thats not a nice thing to say. Actually , if you want to know the truth, I have lived where you are now for about 13 years of my life. I am also an American citizen, who grew up in Littleton and Denver.

Well I have seen a lot of negative feedback about my testimony. I feel sad that there are none who agree with my standpoint. For those other consumers in the same situation as I, I wish you the best of luck. I know it is challenging.

The good news is that I think I have found someone who will allow me to transfer money to them, then they will use their credit card to purchase a year account for me. it is not confirmed yet, but when it is I hope to see the same passion shown here throughout the support forum. This is the first time managing a server myself, and I am sure I will have a lot to learn from the members in this forum.

In a lot of countries, bank account numbers are a standard way to exchange money. People will tell their bank account numbers to each other so they can pay and get paid, and many businesses have their bank account numbers posted on their public website so their customers can pay them easily. I'm not sure what it's like in China, but I've seen this in several countries.

In America, it's different. It is very unusual for American businesses to disclose their banking information to first-time customers. It is also very unusual for American people to use bank account numbers when exchanging money among themselves. Americans make heavy use of credit cards, PayPal, Western Union, and even personal checks, but direct transfer between banks is not very common – at least in the retail sector. I don't know why, but that's the way things are. Maybe the evil banks and credit card companies wanted Americans to do it that way.

Nonetheless, it is only to be expected that small businesses such as Linode will refuse to accept direct transfers. It just isn't a commonly accepted method of payment. Even if the transfer looks safe, convenient, etc., if they don't know it inside and out, they won't take any chances. When money is involved, being conservative can be a virtue. After all, that's how people on the Internet guard against fraud: by being super paranoid. Yes, it probably loses them a few customers. But it also helps them to stay comfortable, and you can't blame people for wanting to be comfortable in their monetary dealings.

It's also perfectly reasonable that people from other countries, such as @AntiNSA will find this American practice frustrating. People from other countries might be used to exchanging banking information or even having it posted on the public web. But again, Linode is an American company, and you have to accept the fact that American companies prefer to be paid in a certain way. Maybe it's inconvenient and maybe it's just enriching the credit card companies, but American businesses simply aren't used to being paid directly into their bank accounts.

You'll probably be able to find some "wholesale" businesses, even in America, who accept direct transfers from large customers. But Linode isn't one of those large companies, and you're not one of those large customers.

I've paid contractors using wire transfer, mainly because the bank couldn't comprehend what an ACH EFT was. Contractor couldn't wait for a check, and that's fine, so he ate the 25 dollar fee and had his money within 10 minutes after I signed the transfer authorization.

Risk level aside, Linode does not accept wire transfer. I resell linodes. Some other people do, too. I would accept a wire transfer, but of course I'm going to build profit into the transaction because I'm reselling the service.

This was offered to AntiNSA. He pulled the save the world card and noted that he couldn't pay a "fourth party" person, whatever that would be. (It would be a 1st party transaction. He gets a VPS, and that VPS happens to be based on Linode. Then we would deal with Linode.)

In my opinion, this guy isn't going to stop until he's either silenced by Linode, or Linode changes their policies to accept more payment types. Knowing that Maxmind probably flips it's shit every time you wave a wire transfer near it… I'm guessing the former.

Ive given my opinion. I don't think I have much more to say about it. Not once did I demonize or make glittering generalizations against entire groups of people. Im not paying with chickens and I dont have a pack of "save the world" playing cards.I mentioned before I think that I have found a third person that is a friend that will accept money and assist in transferring the money to Linode. If you people are under the impression that businesses dont do bank to bank transfers, and doing so equates to bringing chickens in for business; well Id strongly disagree with that. I have had several companies wire money directly to my account. Getty images, Allamy, etc…

On a personal note it is my own opinion that many of the economic problems being faced in the world today were created by third wheel/middle men/credit card companies. Creating a false value commodity.

But you dont have to subscribe to that belief. I would not demonize you if you thought differently.

As I said earlier, I hpe your passion is equally as sttrong when I search for help and support on the support side of things.

@AntiNSA:

Was this the fall into line and be with us or you are with the terrorist type section?

All your base are belong to us. Most of the terrorists I know will accept bank transfers - that might be the root problem here. If the Linode staff would just turn terrorist, the bank transfers would then be simple.

James

hahahah… and most people who use bank transfers would rather use chickens… So if they would open some kfc franchises Im sure I could get them some fat nuggets.

Linode is not setup to accept wire transfers.

I doubt they are going to adjust their billing system to accommodate you, however if more people request it it could be feasible. You keep going on about it not being an additional step, I think you are missing the point, the system are probably setup in an automated fashion regarding to accounting, renewal, suspension all around credit cards I doubt they have integrated with a deposit account. They'd have to manually handle your cases, verify the transfer, tell the accountant what the deposit is, setup a special reminder for one year from now etc… reconcile the books if the exact amount is not deposited etc.. They choose not to, simple as, use a reseller or figure out a way to get a credit card.

Talman offered to sell him a Linode VPS using a wire transfer. A solution is there if he wants it.

Where's the beef?

I used to be a private consultant. I was burned many times by unusual foreign based transactions. I became very gun shy. It is the only way to stay in business.

Jeff

Don't the banks nowadays give you VISA or whatever DEBIT card whenever you open an account? At least here in Europe they do, and that's what I'm paying Linode with.

For extra bonus, no one can steal your money if you keep the account just for online transactions and empty until you need to pay something online.

I am also willing to get a Linode on AntiNSA behalf, if I receive a bank transfer, check or money order in advance (Western Union is a viable way as well). It must be of enough amount as of exempt me of any charges. I will not charge him extra for my good will, but I am not willing to pay anything for it either.

David

People - the last post from the OP was DECEMBER 20 2010.

It's safe to assume it's either solved or dead (gee, maybe search the OP's name and see what OTHER posts he's made since???).

Lets not draw this useless thread out any more eh?

@hybinet:

In America, it's different. It is very unusual for American businesses to disclose their banking information to first-time customers. It is also very unusual for American people to use bank account numbers when exchanging money among themselves. Americans make heavy use of credit cards, PayPal, Western Union, and even personal checks, but direct transfer between banks is not very common – at least in the retail sector. I don't know why, but that's the way things are. Maybe the evil banks and credit card companies wanted Americans to do it that way.

A curious side effect of this is that wire transfers are a pain in the butt for both sender and receiver. To send a wire transfer, I'm looking at a trip to the bank to fill out some forms and pay $25. International wire transfers are $50. It doesn't look like there's a cost to receive, but I'd probably have to poll them daily until I have the money. That costs a few man-hours.

Nice thing about credit cards: it's automated and cheap. Heck, checks are pretty easy too.

In short, wire transfers are like chickens to Americans. People will look at you funny when you try to pay for something using them.

(note: your comment about big companies/big transactions also applies)

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