Linode's deletion policy: Now this was a stupid post.
This is what happens when you have been up for a day trying to finish up a project and you react to a bad situation by posting a stupid rant, only embarrasing yourself and potentially ruining every inch of credibility you may have had.
Lesson learned.
So if you the moderator be kind enough to PLEASE leave this message. I think whoever comes across will get the jest of it by reading the replies.
So AGAIN: A REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY stupid post with a dumb premise and rather idiotic in my part. My apologies to the Linode team, its fans and the senior commenters.
Sorry.
37 Replies
@Linode TOS:
Payment is due upon invoicing. Service may be interrupted on accounts that reach 10 days past due.
A shrewd, tough, no-bs person with 20 years in the business would understand…
So the payment was overdue for 13 days before Linode shut down the server? That's actually extremely generous. Many companies only give you a couple of days or less to settle overdue bills before they disconnect service. Even the Linode ToS says they only give you 10 days:
This person did read the ToS, right?
Only contact the primary account holder.
Linode does have the ability to do this. Create a new user on your account and check this box:
"Can view invoices, make payments, update contact and billing info, and will receive copies of all invoices and payment emails "
automated call system?
Why? You have to be able to get Linode emails in order to setup your account in the first place. Why would you suddenly be unable to get emails from Linode if you have been getting them all along? One would assume if you have a touchy ISP on your email that you would whitelist Linode from the start or get a different free email like a gmail to make sure you don't have issues.
clients coulf have 100 reasons why the did not get the notification
When they haven't had a problem the whole rest of the time that they have been a Linode customer? I'm not really buying that…. The billing process is largely automated. If you have trouble getting email notifications, add another user with a different email to your account.
but NOT to keep a safety copy for at least another 30 days is crazy.
No, it's not crazy. You're asking Linode to continue wasting more money when they are already 10-13 days out of a VPS because someone hasn't paid? That sounds crazy to me….
is Linode REALLY willing to get itself embroiled in a legal battle over……..13 days of non-payment and the deletion of an account, all its contents and the subsequent fall out?
There is no way that would even go anywhere. Any judge would laugh that out of court. Again, did this person read the ToS and what it explicitly states? Specifically, this part:
"You agree that your use of Linode.com shall be at your sole risk. All services provided by Linode.com are available as is, without warranty."
Linode bears no responsibility for your data. You are expected to keep your own offsite backups in case of emergency. Linode's backup service is a courtesy and is only there as a convenience and is NOT a substitute for keeping your own backups.
I'm sorry your client lost their data, but I cannot see anything that is Linode's fault here.
So rich and yet apparently unable to understand how to use a calendar - or how to hire a bookkeeper - or how to prepay several years in advance - or how to prioritize whats important versus whats not.
Assuming he's not a complete moron, the likelihood of him suing is zero to none - there's not a case here AT ALL. He let the contract expire - end of story.
I mean, I could start my own cloud company literally located in the stratosphere. It would include a heavenly host of angels to handle support requests. I'd probably also pay God for the right to recover lost data, especially when my clients should know better.
On second thought, I'd rather license the patent that would allow me to smite IO thrashers, n00bs.
caker
Linode Staff
@kannary100:
Gripe: Linode's deletion policy and Ever heard of a phone?
Man, this is a BAD ONE:
I just found out that one of my client's sites has been wiped out because he failed to renew his payment cycle. As I suspected, simply a case of the client not getting the emails as they were pre-tagged by the ISP as junk mail and never saw them. And the irony: This client is rich.
But ONLY after 13 days, Linode delete his node (which makes sense) and wipes out his site, his back ups. Everything is gone. GONE.(which is INSANE!!)
While I understand Linode is not a managed solution and very strict about its services, I think is beyond RECKLESS to:
A) Only contact the primary account holder. I mean….Really? How hard is -as matter of common sense- to ALSO notify the additional persons in the account of ANY deletion. That just seems like a horribly bad idea.
B) I understand Linode wants to keep cost down by running the whole shebang on a web-only system…But for CHRIST!!….How hard is it to set up a simple, last minute, use-only-in-extreme-case VoIP automated call system? I mean…I have this set up for a client using a freaking 19.95 dollar a month Vonage account and it would at least make sense in cases.
C) The "We are sorry, but your account and all its images were deleted" answer is going to come up short for the average client. Hey, I am responsible, I know how things work, I have all my Linode flags set up and after 12 years in the business I know clienst can be just dumb and irresponsible about this…..BUT, clients coulf have 100 reasons why the did not get the notification: An illness, an emergency, the ISP pre-tagging Linode emails as junk, etc, etc.
D) To not keep a copy for a certain amount of days? INSANE. Delete the account all you want, that is, after all, justified….but NOT to keep a safety copy for at least another 30 days is crazy. In a scale 1 to 10, that is a 9.
And here is why all these points are important:
The average client may be just a regular mom-n-pop and under these circumstances they will usually either shrugged it off, do a facapalm, curse God and take it. Fine.
But what will happen when Linode does this to a client that has more money than GOD? What happens when that client is a shrewd, tough, no-bs person with 20 years in the business and ex-CEO of a major online site with a legal team bigger than a football team? What happens when that client is so furious the words "I will contact my lawyers" come out of his mouth? is Linode REALLY willing to get itself embroiled in a legal battle over……..13 days of non-payment and the deletion of an account, all its contents and the subsequent fall out? Because in this case that looks the direction this is going, unless by some miracle this can be solved….which I doubt.
I have no dog in this fight. After all, this is between Linode and my client, not me. About the only thing I probably did wrong was rely on Linode's back up to back up the site, but beyond that, it is not my problem to deal with. That said, it seems Linode has the "libertarian" (you are responsible for yourself) dial at an 11. It would do good for Linode to turn it down to at least to a 6 or a 7.
And KEEP IN MIND….I am a Linode-head. I LOVE LINODE. I have migrated all my clients to LINODE.
Let it rip.
Sorry to hear you got snagged by this. Please let me clarify a few facts:
It is ~35 days (or more), not 13. We shut Linodes down on the 10th, cancel them on the 20th, and then the data will remain for a minimum of two weeks before going into an as-needed-queue to be scrubbed and freed.
In all cases we send many notifications. Please update your billing info, you have an outstanding balance, warning that you'll be suspended, warning that we're about to suspend, update that we did suspend… In this particular case we sent 7 notification emails to the account's email addresses over about a two week period before taking any or each action.
We don't have a phone number on that account. You can add one here:
Sorry…
-Chris
@caker:
Sorry to hear you got snagged by this. Please let me clarify a few facts:
It is ~35 days (or more), not 13. We shut Linodes down on the 10th, cancel them on the 20th, and then the data will remain for a minimum of two weeks before going into an as-needed-queue to be scrubbed and freed.
In all cases we send many notifications. Please update your billing info, you have an outstanding balance, warning that you'll be suspended, warning that we're about to suspend, update that we did suspend… In this particular case we sent 7 notification emails to the account's email addresses over about a two week period before taking any or each action.
We don't have a phone number on that account. You can add one here:
https://manager.linode.com/account/contact Sorry…
-Chris
Wow, that's good to know, and really nice of Linode to do. Far above and beyond any other host I know.
caker
Linode Staff
-Chris
Simple stuff.
caker
Linode Staff
@Ghan_04:
Wow, that's good to know, and really nice of Linode to do. Far above and beyond any other host I know.
We will also work with anyone who needs some flexibility making payment - just contact us via a ticket or email.
-Chris
caker
Linode Staff
@kannary100:
obs: And your comment would be pointless as - of course- there is and offsite back up,…..But when you run a database-based website, stuff that happens between updates gets lost.
You can solve that using local and remote DB replication. It's good stuff.
-Chris
@kannary100:
Costing Linode probably another couple of years of 19.95$ a month
~~http://www.piano.christrup.net/PIANO/FORUM/rofl.gif
OMG he is a BIG spender, how ever will Linode survive without that $20 a month.
//Caker - let us know if you need a care package with some food and toiletries to get you thru the rough times ahead//~~
Note any care packages from me will solely consist of pie.
Again, not really my problem. I suppose the client will learn a lesson from this one.
And at the end posting this will probably cost me more than had I not said anything at all. Good luck getting ANY replies to my posts from here on out I suppose.
oh well. That frontal lobe of mine and the impulse control betrayed me.
I should have known better. Regret, it's a bitch.
You vented, we poked a few teeny tiny holes in your logic, and it's over.
Sh*t happens - you can either wallow in it, or scrape it off your boot and move on.
Perspective - it's a great moderator.
//the big question is - what type of pie was OBS boxing up?//
And vonskippy my favourite kind of pie, meat and potato!
Well, I must say my embarrasement is pretty awful right now.
I feel about as good as a s#itsandwhich.
Nice. Awesome.
@kannary100:
But what will happen when Linode does this to a client that has more money than GOD?
However not as much sense as The Lord then….
@kannary100:
I was simply gripping for the sick of gripping. Big mistake. I had forgotten what a lovely audience we have.
You were not just griping. You are actually acusing Linode of doing something that is the result of your or your client's incompetency. And doing so you even fabricated facts.
So what did you expect? That the "lovely audience" oohs and aahs, and awwws and they all sing kumbaya and protest how "bad" you were treated by Linode? You must think the "lovely audience" here are idiots.
We done we the lynching already? Or is this going to be the ongoing ridicule?
@kannary100:
Or is this going to be the ongoing ridicule?
Probably the latter. Welcome to the Internets!
@kannary100:
Yeah, yeah…I got it. I screwed up. It was a bad move. I admited it. It was a stupid post.
We done we the lynching already? Or is this going to be the ongoing ridicule?
Put your feet up, have a beer and a pie and take it as personalised entertainment.
@caker:
We will also work with anyone who needs some flexibility making payment - just contact us via a ticket or email.
-Chris
I would like some flexibility making a payment. Would it be possible to delay my next payment until June 12, 3012?
@Guspaz:
@caker:We will also work with anyone who needs some flexibility making payment - just contact us via a ticket or email.
-Chris
I would like some flexibility making a payment. Would it be possible to delay my next payment until June 12, 3012? I suppose that would depend on when your original payment date is…
When my annual payment is up, it's the 1st of that month, but I usually don't get paid until the 15th. I never have a problem submitting a ticket asking for an extension until that date.
But, as Chris said, just submit a ticket and ask.
@Azathoth:
And doing so you even fabricated facts.
Ah - that explains the edits he made to remove his previous posts, then. "Evidence? What evidence?"
Does anyone remember the book 1984 where history was considered malleable in this way?
James
@NeonNero:
I suppose that would depend on when your original payment date is…
When my annual payment is up, it's the 1st of that month, but I usually don't get paid until the 15th. I never have a problem submitting a ticket asking for an extension until that date.
But, as Chris said, just submit a ticket and ask.
:wink:
I'm glad you think my proposed next payment date is reasonable. Hopefully Chris will agree.
@Guspaz:
I'm glad you think my proposed next payment date is reasonable. Hopefully Chris will agree.
It seems reasonable that if you will retroactively pay back to 1012, he will let your next payment be in 3012. I sure would!
James
@kannary100:
Wow, not ONLY didn't they delete, they reverted back to its original post.
Well, you DID rant for a good long while about their deletion policies. Maybe they just wanted to cover their bases this time, seeing as there's been past trouble and all.
@Azathoth:
and they all sing kumbaya
So we won't be singing Kumbaya now?