Legal question: Would Linode host this website?

Why not have the review process take place before the content is available?

Linode is in the hosting business, not the legal paperwork business. If you're generating piles of work for them because your site gets repeated DMCA requests, odds are they'll say ~"you need to stop getting these". If you cannot do that, they'll likely suggest you host your site somewhere else.

• Les

@Main Street James:

Why not have the review process take place before the content is available?

The problem with manual review is that the upload process is completely automated.

The process goes something like this:

• User uploads file

• File gets stored on Amazon S3

• Daemon running on dedicated server downloads file

• Daemon converts file to acceptable format

• Daemon uploads file to Amazon S3

• Original file is deleted from Amazon S3

• Daemon pings web / application server using a web hook with details of new file

• Web / application server updates database with new file data

• File is available for download on website

having a manual review process in that is going to be very difficult. I can review the files once they are available on the website but until then the file is in the automated conversion process and not really accessible so there is going to be some time where the file is available to the public and then possibly available for DMCA take down requests.

@akerl:

Linode is in the hosting business, not the legal paperwork business. If you're generating piles of work for them because your site gets repeated DMCA requests, odds are they'll say ~"you need to stop getting these". If you cannot do that, they'll likely suggest you host your site somewhere else.

• Les

But which (if any) hosts would be OK with this? Websites like YouTube deal with problems like this all the time. I imagine that when they started they were hosted with a normal VPS / dedicated server company. So which companies are going to be OK with it.

Ideally the DMCA take down requests would come directly to me rather than Linode and then I can deal with all the paperwork myself but I get a nasty feeling these end up getting sent to hosting companies more than the website themselves.

@Cromulent:

@Main Street James:

Why not have the review process take place before the content is available?

The problem with manual review is that the upload process is completely automated.

The process goes something like this:

** snip **

having a manual review process in that is going to be very difficult.

Your last step can simply include setting a flag that leaves the item 'non-visible'. I generally use a status flag in each record and have non-administrative sql queries include " and item_status = 'Active' ". This allows me to have items that are in the DB but not available ('Inactive') as well as things like a template item to clone ('Template'), out of stock ('O-o-S'), etc. Only the 'Active' items are available to site visitors. In your case the non-visible status could be 'New', 'Pending', etc.

You can have your final step send you an email with a link to the letting you know that a new item is waiting your review.

@Main Street James:

@Cromulent:

@Main Street James:

Why not have the review process take place before the content is available?

The problem with manual review is that the upload process is completely automated.

The process goes something like this:

** snip **

having a manual review process in that is going to be very difficult.

Your last step can simply include setting a flag that leaves the item 'non-visible'. I generally use a status flag in each record and have non-administrative sql queries include " and item_status = 'Active' ". This allows me to have items that are in the DB but not available ('Inactive') as well as things like a template item to clone ('Template'), out of stock ('O-o-S'), etc. Only the 'Active' items are available to site visitors. In your case the non-visible status could be 'New', 'Pending', etc.

You can have your final step send you an email with a link to the letting you know that a new item is waiting your review.

Yeah that is a pretty good idea. I think I'll do that. If the website becomes popular I might have to re-evaluate based on the amount of work required but it should be fine for the time being.

Give it a try - it's better to ask for forgiveness then beg for permission.

Any (ANY) project should be portable these days - if you can't do a full on migration from one host to another in a reasonable amount of time, your design and documentation needs some work.

@vonskippy:

Give it a try - it's better to ask for forgiveness then beg for permission.

Any (ANY) project should be portable these days - if you can't do a full on migration from one host to another in a reasonable amount of time, your design and documentation needs some work.

Yeah good point.

I've been thinking about this and it'll be hard to do a manual review as the site will actually accept submissions from publishers for released and copyrighted works (with their permission) so there really isn't anyway to tell if the copyrighted work is allowed or not ahead of time. I can verify accounts to a certain extent but that is the limit.

Seems like I'll just have to automate deployment to allow for easy migration if I get kicked off. Seems a bit unfair though if I were to be kicked off for hosting a site trying its best to do business in a legal manner.

@Cromulent:

@Main Street James:

Why not have the review process take place before the content is available?
But which (if any) hosts would be OK with this? Websites like YouTube deal with problems like this all the time. I imagine that when they started they were hosted with a normal VPS / dedicated server company. So which companies are going to be OK with it.

Ideally the DMCA take down requests would come directly to me rather than Linode and then I can deal with all the paperwork myself but I get a nasty feeling these end up getting sent to hosting companies more than the website themselves.

It sounds like you need to do a bit more legal due diligence before you open for business. I'm sure you are going to need to a consult an attorney at some point. Doing it sooner might avoid legal costs down the road, but if just can't find it in you to cough up for legal fees now, I'm pretty sure you could learn a lot on your own. There is a way you can be sure to have a chance to act on DMCA takedown notices before they get escalated. How is left as an exercise for the reader.

@Cromulent:

Seems like I'll just have to automate deployment to allow for easy migration if I get kicked off. Seems a bit unfair though if I were to be kicked off for hosting a site trying its best to do business in a legal manner.
Automated deployments are a good idea anyway, even if you don't expect to be kicked off.

Also, if you set up a very clear and convenient way for copyright holders to report abuse, it might greatly reduce your chances of getting kicked off. A simple "Contact Us" page is not enough. Set up a form specifically for reporting abuse, make it clear that this form is the preferred way to report copyright infringement, allow the submiter to upload files (in case they want to send you a PDF), make this form easy to access from any page on your site, and immediately send the submitter a confirmation email with a promise to review the content in question as soon as the next business day. The goal is to make your method at least a hundred times convenient than looking up which company is hosting your website and sending an email to them.

@eas:

@Cromulent:

@Main Street James:

Why not have the review process take place before the content is available?
But which (if any) hosts would be OK with this? Websites like YouTube deal with problems like this all the time. I imagine that when they started they were hosted with a normal VPS / dedicated server company. So which companies are going to be OK with it.

Ideally the DMCA take down requests would come directly to me rather than Linode and then I can deal with all the paperwork myself but I get a nasty feeling these end up getting sent to hosting companies more than the website themselves.

It sounds like you need to do a bit more legal due diligence before you open for business. I'm sure you are going to need to a consult an attorney at some point. Doing it sooner might avoid legal costs down the road, but if just can't find it in you to cough up for legal fees now, I'm pretty sure you could learn a lot on your own. There is a way you can be sure to have a chance to act on DMCA takedown notices before they get escalated. How is left as an exercise for the reader.

Yeah I think I'll have to talk to a lawyer at some point. Might as well do it sooner rather than later.

@hybinet:

@Cromulent:

Seems like I'll just have to automate deployment to allow for easy migration if I get kicked off. Seems a bit unfair though if I were to be kicked off for hosting a site trying its best to do business in a legal manner.
Automated deployments are a good idea anyway, even if you don't expect to be kicked off.

Also, if you set up a very clear and convenient way for copyright holders to report abuse, it might greatly reduce your chances of getting kicked off. A simple "Contact Us" page is not enough. Set up a form specifically for reporting abuse, make it clear that this form is the preferred way to report copyright infringement, allow the submiter to upload files (in case they want to send you a PDF), make this form easy to access from any page on your site, and immediately send the submitter a confirmation email with a promise to review the content in question as soon as the next business day. The goal is to make your method at least a hundred times convenient than looking up which company is hosting your website and sending an email to them.

Good plan. I was going to have a page specifically for DMCA take down requests anyway. This way should make it easy for people to report problems to me in the quickest way possible.